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-   -   ABS Settings - Possible Concern (http://ducatiforum.com/ducati-1199/15665-abs-settings-possible-concern.html)

AntiHero Oct 3rd 2013 08:47 PM

ABS Settings - Possible Concern
 
Ran into an issue today that explains a near-crash moment at the track I could never figure out. The cause (I suspect): in ABS Setting 2 if you lock up the rear wheel during a downshift, ABS for the front is triggered, reducing brake power quite dramatically. Happened to me today on an offramp. I was nearly straight up and only clicked off a moderate throttle blip, the back locked and all of a sudden, 60% front brakes.

My guess is that if the rear locks up (whether the cause is hard braking or a downshift), ABS kicks in for the front, too. I'm fine with the rear sliding around a bit, but I'm not ok with losing braking power to the front.

I've run ABS 1, but I end up lifting the rear quite a bit, so kept it in 2, which works 99% of the time. I'm either going to have to be more vigilant with throttle-blips on downshifts, upgrade the slipper clutch, or have to ease up on the lever squeeze.

I'll go out and lock the rear up in downshifts tomorrow just to confirm, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about what's going on (but not 100% positive).

Phl Oct 4th 2013 04:01 AM

last sunday, in one session i switched to race mode, where i had different TC and EBC settings, but i had forgotten that ABS has been turned off completely. loved the braking characteristics, until i was a tad too late on the brake down the front brake. locked up the rear and slid into the runoff zone.

the problem you described never happened to me, thanks for pointing it out!

raypeter Oct 4th 2013 04:35 AM

try changing the engine braking setting so that u get less engine compression lock up( it think ebc1) and less likely to lock rear by downshifting, i dont think ive ever used the rear unless on a hill at a traffic light... but that could explain why people pass me on the track at the end of a high speed straight :)

AntiHero Oct 4th 2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raypeter (Post 125265)
try changing the engine braking setting so that u get less engine compression lock up( it think ebc1) and less likely to lock rear by downshifting, i dont think ive ever used the rear unless on a hill at a traffic light... but that could explain why people pass me on the track at the end of a high speed straight :)

EBC 3 is the setting that provides the least engine braking and yeah, that's the setting I'm always in. A proper hrottle blip while downshifting will always prevent lockup, but sometimes I (unwisely) rely on the slipper, but it's not failsafe.

And if you have ABS, your bike, under certain conditions, will apply the rear brake without you applying it.

turnone Oct 7th 2013 07:45 PM

I've never heard of it having linked brakes, which is what you are describing when you say it will apply the rear. How would it do this? But I always ride around in ABS1 (Front Only).

I'm a little surprised that the slipper didn't work for you and locked the rear. Were you downshifting one gear at a time or more? Especially since you say you weren't leaned over.

I would be concerned something is wrong.

I haven't felt any weirdness from the brakes. I love them and think they are the best ever.

Turning mine into a track/race bike. Newly painted bodywork just went on. Next comes slicks. Can't wait to try these brakes out on the track.

EvoL Oct 7th 2013 08:04 PM

Anti, off topic, but did you ever do the rear brake reservoir delete? I have been waiting for the How-To :D

Brickcues Oct 7th 2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiHero (Post 125289)
EBC 3 is the setting that provides the least engine braking and yeah, that's the setting I'm always in. A proper hrottle blip while downshifting will always prevent lockup, but sometimes I (unwisely) rely on the slipper, but it's not failsafe.

And if you have ABS, your bike, under certain conditions, will apply the rear brake without you applying it.

Not!!! ABS on Pani is not linked so how can it apply the rear brakes?

AntiHero Oct 8th 2013 12:09 AM

Brickcues:
The fluid for the front and rear are independent of each other, but ABS on the Panigale is a two channel system that applies pressure to the rear brake caliper when certain conditions are met if you're in ABS Setting 2 and 3.

'Tis in the manual:
For road use in good grip conditions, both wheels
are controlled by the system; the system combines
braking power generating pressure even on the
rear caliper, anti lift-up control is active but this
setting mostly focuses on braking power and
allows a few uncontrolled lift-ups

And:

ABS 9ME system fitted to 1199 Panigale is a twochannel
latest-generation system that actuates
combined braking with anti lift-up function for the
rear wheel so as to guarantee not only a reduced
stopping distance, but also a higher stability under
braking. ABS 9ME system is specifically calibrated
for sport use, and features three different levels of
intervention, one per Riding Mode. In RACE mode
the system only works on the front disk to ensure top
performance for track use

What the 9ME system doesn't factor in is things other than the brakes locking up the rear. When it happens (during a high rpm downshift while braking hard--or when your nifty fanny pack unclips and falls into the rear axle), front brake pressure is reduced (as part of the anti-lift feature, I'm guessing). If someone else wants to confirm that it's reduced brake pressure and NOT ABS under this condition, go right ahead. Threshold brake, then lock up the rear with an aggro downshift. Don't sue me if you get it wrong and crash, though. I initially thought it was ABS, but after some experimentation, believe not. Whereas ABS increases stopping power by a nominal amount, this rear lockup / two channel system severely increases stopping distances by reducing braking power pretty dramatically. It's different than ABS.

AntiHero Oct 8th 2013 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoL (Post 125823)
Anti, off topic, but did you ever do the rear brake reservoir delete? I have been waiting for the How-To :D

Will do. I'm redoing my current setup (which was intended to fix problems with the previous setup). One of the main issues is the rear brake boiling at the track. When I started investigating how this was possible, being that I don't use the rear brake, I figured out what was also causing some scary ass moments on-track under braking when I relied only on the slipper clutch.

Parts are waiting for me in the next town on my PacNW trip....so stay tuned. :)

kismetcapitan Jul 8th 2015 10:15 PM

bringing this back from the dead....as a longtime rider of BMWs, I'm familiar with this "anti-lift" technology. It's not foolproof, and it works exactly as you'd think - by reducing or modulating the front brake. When it engages, it is spooky as hell because you literally lose some front braking power, in the name of preventing a stoppie.

The Bosch 9ME system is designed so that the rear brake can be applied in varying amounts by the ABS pump whenever it decides to, which is when you engage the front lever. This is, however, a software thing. BMWs using the 9ME make it very clear that when you use the front brake lever, the computer decides how much rear brake to add, and does so independently.

Ducati is much less clear on this :P

I pulled this up in a search because I was wondering if my 1299 was also using this same type of "linked" brakes. I actually prefer it, but it never adds too much rear - if anything it's not enough to be really perceptible, and when I want a pronounced rear braking effect I have to, well, actually press on the rear brake pedal...


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