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Old Aug 25th 2016, 02:14 PM   #1
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I Ride: 2012 1199S ABS
High side prevention, is traction control up to it?

I am mid way thru my second track day season. I can push the front hard enough to feel it slide now and again. Low sided once in a slow corner as I tried to tighten the line. Got lucky and scuffed up a bar end and frame slider and clothes a little but have had more expensive crashes on a mountain bike. I ride in the top quarter of the B group. I usually see the traction control light in most corner exits. I ride in sport setting and believe I need to ride better rather than asking the Panigale make me faster. I'm replacing the rear tire after 500 miles on the track. I have never really felt the rear break loose or traction control come on. So I have a numb butt. I wonder how much more I can push things and how do I tell when I am nearing the edge. Should I use more throttle and/or turn the traction control down. May be a stupid question, but hey I will own that if I can get some insight into getting a better drive out of corners. I would prefer to learn from the considerable experience of others here rather than the hard way. If I can't go any faster, I may have to get a better filter, heh heh. Thanks, Paul
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Old Aug 25th 2016, 02:24 PM   #2
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on a 1299 the DTC will help you massively. I've had the DTC light constantly on at 53 degrees lean (DDA is an awesome tool if you want to see what you are actually doing) without any drama. In the right corner combinations, where I feel the most comfortable on the bike, I can control the slide and slip angle by using the throttle while depending on the DTC to keep me in the saddle. That doesn't mean it won't buck you off if you whack the throttle while leaning, but it will help you in a good aggressive corner exit..
Thanks from Desmophile
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Old Aug 25th 2016, 05:17 PM   #3
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Thanks TurboLag,
appreciate your experience, gives me another reason to upgrade to 1299 since it has the lean angle traction control. I can do DDA on the 1199 I think, but I don't think it gives me lean angle data.
Dang! I hate shopping for another motorcycle
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Old Aug 25th 2016, 07:06 PM   #4
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If you're riding in the B group and you can feel the front sliding, you're either pushing way too hard on corner entry or being too abrupt with the controls. In reality, most of time what you're feeling is the chassis being unsettled, not the front tire actually sliding (well, except for the time you crashed, THEN it was sliding! ) If the TC lights are coming on when you roll the throttle on, you'll likely never "feel" it working because all it's doing is retarding the ignition slightly. It would have to kick in very hard for you to feel the cut in power when it starts cutting fuel delivery. It's not like the racing TC systems that cut spark, which are much more obvious when they kick in. As far as the settings, riding on the track in Sport mode default settings (TC is what 3 or 4 if I remember?) that's too high for optimal use of the system on the track, it will kick in too often. If you're riding on the track with the stock Supercorsa SP's the correct level for DTC is Level 2, and with race tires it's Level 1. Doesn't matter your riding skill level, that's how to get the optimal response of the system for the tires and riding condition. There is the same level of "high side protection" in Level 1 as there is in Level 8, the only difference is how much the system kicks in to stop the minor wheelspin that is part of a normal strong corner exit. The bottom line is that having the level set too high will just slow you down, while making you not one bit "safer", other than the safety that comes from going slower. For where to go from here, I'd suggest working on being SMOOTH with the application of throttle and getting on the gas as early in the corner as possible. Once you have that down, then just progressively starting using more throttle as you exit the turns. If you find yourself standing the bike up and whacking the throttle open after you're mostly upright, then slow down and work on the early throttle application some more. Eventually you'll get to where you're rolling on the gas much earlier and harder than ever before, and you'll be in the A group!
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Old Aug 25th 2016, 07:54 PM   #5
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Thanks Jareli,
Appreciate your feedback about any safety backstop different traction control settings offer and how to gradually push the corner exit, that makes good sense.
The sensation I am getting that I have interpreted as the front sliding a little seems to be associated with a pretty well set corner attitude and no throttle change but a little touch more counter steer to get a foot from the inside curb at apex instead of 3 feet away. There is just a slight twitch in the bars that self corrects at times when I don't seem to be doing anything else. This as best as I can tell is what I did when I low sided. (and my front tire was probably getting old). This may be the wrong interpretation, I don't know for sure. Overall I think my cornering is fairly smooth, I focus more on that than going fast.
So my plan is to go to race mode at the next track day and that will put me at a lower level of traction control, and other parameters as well, and start easing into that. I am running stock Super Corsas.
Thanks again for your suggestions. Paul
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Old Aug 25th 2016, 09:03 PM   #6
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I think you can push that bike all the way until you crash, and when you crash you know you when too far (lol) dude what is the point that you are try to proof?
go to the track and enjoy the bike is not like Ducati is waiting for you and the end of the section to sign a contract.
the best track day is the one that you show up with a beautiful bike and leave with a beautiful bike.
second track day and you are in the B group? let me guess?? your are to fast for novice? if your are the faster novice you got the track for your self but if you are in the B group just because novice is not cool you probable are in group the crash by the second section( I love those guys)
Thanks from Paul G

Last edited by esmirna8261980; Aug 25th 2016 at 09:12 PM.
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Old Jul 1st 2019, 11:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jarelj View Post
If you're riding in the B group and you can feel the front sliding, you're either pushing way too hard on corner entry or being too abrupt with the controls. In reality, most of time what you're feeling is the chassis being unsettled, not the front tire actually sliding (well, except for the time you crashed, THEN it was sliding! ) If the TC lights are coming on when you roll the throttle on, you'll likely never "feel" it working because all it's doing is retarding the ignition slightly. It would have to kick in very hard for you to feel the cut in power when it starts cutting fuel delivery. It's not like the racing TC systems that cut spark, which are much more obvious when they kick in. As far as the settings, riding on the track in Sport mode default settings (TC is what 3 or 4 if I remember?) that's too high for optimal use of the system on the track, it will kick in too often. If you're riding on the track with the stock Supercorsa SP's the correct level for DTC is Level 2, and with race tires it's Level 1. Doesn't matter your riding skill level, that's how to get the optimal response of the system for the tires and riding condition. There is the same level of "high side protection" in Level 1 as there is in Level 8, the only difference is how much the system kicks in to stop the minor wheelspin that is part of a normal strong corner exit. The bottom line is that having the level set too high will just slow you down, while making you not one bit "safer", other than the safety that comes from going slower. For where to go from here, I'd suggest working on being SMOOTH with the application of throttle and getting on the gas as early in the corner as possible. Once you have that down, then just progressively starting using more throttle as you exit the turns. If you find yourself standing the bike up and whacking the throttle open after you're mostly upright, then slow down and work on the early throttle application some more. Eventually you'll get to where you're rolling on the gas much earlier and harder than ever before, and you'll be in the A group!
Hey!

I have to ask you something. You seem like you know what you are talking about.

I have done 2 trackways on my 1299 s. I've been running for several years, but never used traction control before. Had one high side with my former R1... I do not have the skills to drift out off corners. Will the DTC be able to controle the skid if I give full throttle after apex in the levels 1 / 2 / 3? In level 8 there was no problem, but I do feel I loose a lot of performance at the higher levels on DTC.

Which DTC level(s) is the best regards safety and performance? I run Supercorsa SP tires.

Thanks :-)
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Old Jul 1st 2019, 11:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Drogon83 View Post
Hey!

I have to ask you something. You seem like you know what you are talking about.

I have done 2 trackways on my 1299 s. I've been running for several years, but never used traction control before. Had one high side with my former R1... I do not have the skills to drift out off corners. Will the DTC be able to controle the skid if I give full throttle after apex in the levels 1 / 2 / 3? In level 8 there was no problem, but I do feel I loose a lot of performance at the higher levels on DTC.

Which DTC level(s) is the best regards safety and performance? I run Supercorsa SP tires.

Thanks :-)
I can try and answer this. Depends on the year of your 1299S. If you have a 2015 or a 2016 There really is not a slide control. That became available on the Anniversary bike. Shortly there after Ducati offered the option you could purchase on your 2015-2016 1299s through a software download at your dealer. Now as far as how it works. The slide control will only work once you put your bike in either modes 1 or 2. This EVO slide control also came with an advanced wheelie control as well. I have it on both my street bike and my race bike and to be quite honest with you. I really only notice it on the race bike and even at that point I really need to be ON IT to get it to work. The other thing to keep in mind is that this was Ducati 1st attempt at slide control. And when you think about it. They are trying to control a bike with over 100 ft of torque. Crazy right. I can see why it is so much more effective and controllable on the V4. Ah progress!
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Old Jul 1st 2019, 12:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Blade Runner View Post
I can try and answer this. Depends on the year of your 1299S. If you have a 2015 or a 2016 There really is not a slide control. That became available on the Anniversary bike. Shortly there after Ducati offered the option you could purchase on your 2015-2016 1299s through a software download at your dealer. Now as far as how it works. The slide control will only work once you put your bike in either modes 1 or 2. This EVO slide control also came with an advanced wheelie control as well. I have it on both my street bike and my race bike and to be quite honest with you. I really only notice it on the race bike and even at that point I really need to be ON IT to get it to work. The other thing to keep in mind is that this was Ducati 1st attempt at slide control. And when you think about it. They are trying to control a bike with over 100 ft of torque. Crazy right. I can see why it is so much more effective and controllable on the V4. Ah progress!
Hello! Thanks for the fast reply! I do have the 2015 1299s without the slide control... What is your opinion on the DTC? Can I rely on it when I push it down the lower levels, keeping in mind I do not know how to skid out of corners... ?
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Old Jul 1st 2019, 03:07 PM   #10
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Plenty of discussion about the various modes, what I found is that wet mode is very forgiving of poor throttle control, very hard to lose it relatively speaking. Ive only had my bike 6 months and 8000k's but I ride all the time on the road in race mode dtc 3 and dwc either off (for hooning) or 2. Only done a couple of track days, what Ive found is that at my level I am nearly as fast in wet mode on a short track but best settings for fun is race mode, dtc and dwc 2 or 3. Been really aggressive on exit and never felt out of control, I think that its a mistake to rely on DTC to act as a corner babysitter, more relevant is throttle control and tire pressures, selection and wear, plus reading track conditions and developing feel. If you crack the throttle at max lean expecting dtc to sort it, reality will bite

Last edited by Paul G; Jul 1st 2019 at 03:09 PM.
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