Go Back   Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Ducati 1199

Ducati 1199 Ducati 1199 Forum - Ducati 1199 Panigale Superbike Motorcycle Forum


Thanks Tree1Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mar 27th 2012, 09:41 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
AntiHero's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Round the World on an 1199

Posts: 2,084
Thanks: 2249

Too much fuel = black smoke.
White/bluish smoke = oil in the cylinder.

Ducati might not be listening to this forum, but guaranteed they're watching their own youtube channel. Someone should post a video response (I don't know how to or I would) on Ducati's 3d Engine video (and or comment something like, "this video doesn't describe why so many Panigales burn so much oil on startup"). A comment like that getting voted up 10 times (by us) would definitely get their attention!


Last edited by AntiHero; Mar 27th 2012 at 09:52 AM.
AntiHero is offline  
 
Old Mar 27th 2012, 10:10 AM   #22
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Hermosa Beach, CA

Posts: 41
Thanks: 8

Anyone know how the crackcase vacuum pump works? Depending on where it exhuasts it may lead to a small amount of oil residue somewhere in system.
cgalford is offline  
Old Mar 27th 2012, 11:04 AM   #23
Moderator
 
Xbox's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: The Med

Posts: 2,546
Thanks: 532

I Ride: the road
Guys, just chill out.

If its a design-feature, we're maybe gonna need a top up every couple months. Big deal, they sell oil in litre bottles, so I'll buy some and put it in nice Corse packaging.

We're talking about a road trim motor making in excess of 205 pretty genuine bhp with pipes.

You know what, I'll forgive it for liking a sip of oil on startup FFS.
Xbox is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 11:40 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
AntiHero's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Round the World on an 1199

Posts: 2,084
Thanks: 2249

I don't think anyone is freaking out too badly over this, but obviously it is a concern. If it's a design feature, then Ducati needs to come clean on exactly what is causing it. So far no one has provided an accurate explanation. New vehicle smoking upon startup is not by any means normal. (This ain't 1970!)

So I did some more research and spoke with a race-car engine builder/tuner who explained that the vacuum in the crankcase (there's a secondary oil pump in the crankcase that creates a vacuum to prevent parasitic compression losses as the pistons move down) and the pressure differences that result could cause a oil seeping past the seals upon startup (when there is no vacuum). So normal? No, but a sign of imminent doom? No.

Course only time will tell.
AntiHero is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 12:26 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
jjmontesanto's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Southern Pines, NC

Posts: 479
Thanks: 10

I Ride: 1199
"Too much fuel = black smoke"

Is that if the engine is running already (i.e. running rich), whereas in this case it would be unburnt fuel passing through the exhaust valves/system just prior to/as the engine begins burning fuel? IDK, I haven't practiced ME in several years.

Maybe as the starter motor is cycling the engine, fuel is being passed through the exhaust system via the not fully closed exhaust valves, but there isn't enough airflow to exhaust it completely out of the system. Then when the engine does begin firing, that unburned fuel mixes with burned exhaust creating a situation where a bit of white smoke is expelled.

Also seems in the videos that show this condition, it's cold outside. Would be interested to know what the temps were when this happens. The "smoke" seems to dissipate fairly quickly, indicating it may be partially composed of steam as well. Again, not sure, would like to hear Ducati's explanation. But in any case, I'm not at all concerned.
jjmontesanto is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 02:22 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Jakarta

Posts: 22
Thanks: 0

Then maybe its not exactly a design feature, yet more like a design feature downside.
(note that this is just my hypothesis from internet research so CMIIW..)
the thing is that they put so many uncommon racing technology on this bike that 'we' (common people) don't understand whats normal or not.
regarding the vacuum pumps, i might add that by using vacuum pump the engineer could resort to using a lower tension piston ring.(perhaps this is our culprit) to gain extra hp from the low pressure crankcase and from the ring piston friction coefficient. (where else did you think they squeeze those extra 25HP from the same displacements as the predecessor)

source: Crankcase Vacuum Facts - Racing Engines & High Performance Oil Pumps

or...

it also might cause by cold temperature outside..
in this case the use of anti-freeze
well i don't know if dealer allowed to add some antifreeze to engine delivered in cold climate country, coz i live in the tropics..
(but it might be logical cause the demo bike seldom be started, and perhaps they dont want it to stall in front the customer)

in his thread Padi4 said that he hadn't see any smoke coming from his bike yet which make this even more interesting.. this could still mean it only affect random engine..LOL

anyway, perhaps there are still a lot of explanation out there that we could come with
but the official ducati explanation is what we're missing here..

Last edited by Superquadro; Mar 29th 2012 at 02:24 PM.
Superquadro is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 03:52 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
bwaide's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Navarre, Fl

Posts: 380
Thanks: 83

I Ride: '12 1199 Panigale ABS
What's crazy to me is that the couple of guys on here that have actually ridden the bike said there was no issue with smoke, yet there's a thread two pages long based off a couple youtube videos.
bwaide is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 04:39 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Rhino's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: perth.wa.au

Posts: 312
Thanks: 3

I know someone who works for Ducati that saw it first hand at some training a couple of days ago.

It definitely happens.

It's definitely smoke, not vapour.

As for why or how long (each start, and ... does it ever stop doing it?) ... *shrug*
Rhino is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 06:25 PM   #29
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: USA

Posts: 88
Thanks: 5

from the MotoCorsa video comments section:

Ducati 1199 Panigale Technical Training - YouTube

One question going on on some of the Ducati boards is why the 1199 smokes on startup? You can clearly see it in several 1199 videos here on youtube, but so far no one has been able to provide a realistic / accurate explanation.


Straight from AJ Ralston - "The 1199 Panigale has an oil pump that creates a vacuum inside the crankcases in order to run more efficiently. The thing is, the vacuum isn't created on initial start up, so it will smoke just a little bit. It's completely natural."
consolidated is offline  
Old Mar 29th 2012, 06:49 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Rhino's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: perth.wa.au

Posts: 312
Thanks: 3

Cool.

Move along, nothing to see here
Rhino is offline  
Reply

  Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Ducati 1199

Tags
exhaust, smoke



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1199S + ABS + Full Exhaust = Order Placed 512BB Ducati 1199 21 Jul 23rd 2013 06:19 PM
White smoke on startup Superquadro Mechanical and Technical 24 Jun 6th 2012 09:04 AM
Which exhaust? mchamp88 Ducati 1199 58 Apr 23rd 2012 10:27 AM
1199 exhaust off bike Dave R Ducati 1199 19 Feb 17th 2012 05:38 AM
Tricolore exhaust nick1199 Ducati 1199 6 Jan 20th 2012 02:26 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed