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Old Apr 20th 2015, 02:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by NotR1GSXZXR View Post
It doesn't feel vague on 1299 it feels perfect , you feel shifting of the gears as same as you go up in gears, QS up shifting or down shifting is very nice and presize with no delays unlike S1000rr it takes time like few seconds , I've herd with 2015 s1000rr on down shift it almost feel like you pressing on a button ( not a good feel) what also I notice I hope it's not a problem down the road using QS going up in gears from 5th to 6th gear bike missed the gear and hit the limiter it happen twice to me within few first miles on the bike, I am hoping it's just a break in period glitch
Never said there was a delay, just have to be really firm with it.

Perhaps the R is different to the 1299............ maybe I need heavier boots!?!?
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 04:22 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mutt1979 View Post
Never said there was a delay, just have to be really firm with it.

Perhaps the R is different to the 1299............ maybe I need heavier boots!?!?
To me the DQS works OK. A positive and firm press of the lever with your foot is more than enough. Without the need for a leaded boot. I'm sure that on the SL I noticed the 'auto blipper' on downshifting periodically when out last Saturday.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 05:07 AM   #33
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Also, the dealer told me when I took my R, NOT to have ANY throttle on. Whether that was to avoid damge I don't know.

But obviously you are going to catch it at some point as I did and basically it wouldn't disengage to drop a gear under any load.......

Last edited by Mutt1979; Apr 20th 2015 at 05:09 AM.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 05:40 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mutt1979 View Post
basically it wouldn't disengage to drop a gear under any load.......
...as it shouldn't. The same way a QS kills ignition briefly to allow the trans/motor to match speeds to avoid trying to shift gears with a load on the trans.

Don't want to be downshifting with a load on the trans either. Not only is there absolutely no reason to, but it could cause damage.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 06:40 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
It is apparent they designed the bike with racetrack performance in mind, as it is obviously way overkill for anything anyone would do on the street. And as I am sure you are aware, on the track you are downshifting as you are braking, and you definitely do NOT want the throttle open in that scenario. That is a quick way to lose the front (almost happened to me racing the R1 at Road Atlanta 5-6 years ago).

With the design/intended purpose of the bike, and with the way the electronics are intended to maximize performance, I see absolutely no reason for them to allow downshifts with the throttle open.

On the street, that stuff really doesn't matter. There are no trophies awarded, nobody is tracking the time it takes to get to the store and back. Just ride it. If you need to downshift, close the throttle and do it. Or if you want to keep the throttle cracked for some reason, pull in the clutch.
I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 06:56 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Duck41 View Post
I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.
I'd say that if you're in the stage of your racing career where you routinely miss downshifts and find yourself a gear or so too high on an exit you're probably measuring progress/advantage in seconds and not milliseconds.

Sounds like 98% street functionality to me.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 07:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Duck41 View Post
I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.
With all due respect, I disagree.

Ive been racing since 2008 with many podiums and several wins to my credit (as a Novice and Expert) and have been a track Instructor for the US's largest TD organization since 2009...and not once have I found myself in a situation where I needed to downshift while on the throttle.

Exit a corner on the gas and accelerate till you reach redline (or where the bike makes max HP), upshift...repeat till the braking zone. Brake at the last possible minute and start downshifting, trail off the brakes to apex as you are finishing your downshifts (where applicable, depending on your desired exit speed/RPM). Get on the gas, accelerate till you reach redline again, repeat.

If ones track/racing strategy differs from that (and includes needing to downshift while on the gas), then it is likely they aren't going fast enough or riding consistent enough to benefit from the few milliseconds they might gain from being able to downshift without pulling in the clutch.



Originally Posted by BTrain5489 View Post
I'd say that if you're in the stage of your racing career where you routinely miss downshifts and find yourself a gear or so too high on an exit you're probably measuring progress/advantage in seconds and not milliseconds.

Sounds like 98% street functionality to me.
Agreed.

While clutchless downshifting could be advantageous while racing, I see no need to be able to downshift with the throttle open on track. Like you said, that is only something that one might do to pass a bunch of cars or something of that nature on the street.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 07:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
While clutchless downshifting could be advantageous while racing, I see no need to be able to downshift with the throttle open on track. Like you said, that is only something that one might do to pass a bunch of cars or something of that nature on the street.
Also agreed

But if it's on the street then really its a bit pointless possibly dangerous even. If you're on a 200+ hp bike already accelerating and you feel you need to be accelerating harder/quicker, well f*ck me you don't want a clutchless downshift, you want a Saturn 5 f*cking rocket!!!

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Old Apr 20th 2015, 07:58 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Mutt1979 View Post
Also agreed

But if it's on the street then really its a bit pointless possibly dangerous even. If you're on a 200+ hp bike already accelerating and you feel you need to be accelerating harder/quicker, well f*ck me you don't want a clutchless downshift, you want a Saturn 5 f*cking rocket!!!

No doubt.
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Old Apr 20th 2015, 09:13 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Chaotic View Post
With all due respect, I disagree.

Ive been racing since 2008 with many podiums and several wins to my credit (as a Novice and Expert) and have been a track Instructor for the US's largest TD organization since 2009...and not once have I found myself in a situation where I needed to downshift while on the throttle.

Exit a corner on the gas and accelerate till you reach redline (or where the bike makes max HP), upshift...repeat till the braking zone. Brake at the last possible minute and start downshifting, trail off the brakes to apex as you are finishing your downshifts (where applicable, depending on your desired exit speed/RPM). Get on the gas, accelerate till you reach redline again, repeat.

If ones track/racing strategy differs from that (and includes needing to downshift while on the gas), then it is likely they aren't going fast enough or riding consistent enough to benefit from the few milliseconds they might gain from being able to downshift without pulling in the clutch.
This is interesting. While I do appreciate your opinion and insight, I find it difficult to believe that in all of your experience, you have never been in a situation where it would have been advantageous for you to get into your bike’s optimum rpm range more rapidly. This would be similar to a racer preferring a bike that does not rev up faster due to him/her feeling there is no benefit to be had in accelerating more rapidly. The question here is not whether it is necessary, but whether it would ultimately offer a competitive advantage.

Perhaps the reason you believe you have never encountered a situation where you would need to accelerate while downshifting is because this technology has not been present, therefore rendering this option counterproductive since it would take more time to manually let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift, and get back on the throttle than it would take to simply remain on the gas and wait to arrive at the optimum rpm range. For example, you wrote that upon exiting a corner, you remain on the gas and accelerate until you reach redline or where the bike makes max HP. Out of curiosity, how long would you estimate it typically takes for this process to play out? What if instead of being required to wait until you reached the optimum rpm range under this method, you could get there, say, a tenth of a second quicker? What kind of effect would this have on a racer’s times over the length of a full race? If it would ultimately shave time, then it would in fact provide the racer a competitive advantage –meaning there would be use for it on a racetrack, and meaning there is potential being left on the table by not incorporating this functionality.
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