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Old Apr 27th 2015, 06:21 PM   #41
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I Ride: '99 m900 city, monster 1100 20th anniv., multistrada pike's peak, BMW r ninet and a 1299 Panigale S
I started out riding Vespas almost 15 years ago -- a 125 and then a 300 -- then I got a monster 600, and then an m900 and then an s1000rr (with track instruction), followed by an 1199 and a Multistrada, HP4, etc. And the 1299 is still a lot for me to handle, it scares the shit out of me at times. I am frankly thinking about picking up an old 600 just to sharpen and hone my skills -- by the way I'm talking about safety and control skilled here, not winning races -- on the track. No matter what kind of wet mode you have on a big bike, no matter the electronics, you'll be much safer on a smaller bike for sure. And you'll probably learn even more on a smaller bike without any electronics at all.

But why are we trying to reason with you in the first place? You are friends with someone who rides a Hayabusa. How very Eastbound and Down.
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Old Apr 27th 2015, 06:44 PM   #42
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I Ride: 84' Short Bus, 14' 1199RM, 16' R1
Originally Posted by SecretlyaFish View Post
1a. So, from what I have read over years and years as a motorcycle fan, usually people when suggesting a first bike fall into 2 groups. The people that say you must start on a 250 or below etc bike that is used and blah blah blah. And then there are the people that say, get whatever bike you want, it will only go as fast as you let it.

1b. Both have their merits. For example, a new rider like myself would undoubtedly feel a lot more at ease on a used 250, for a number of reasons. Less things to worry about, and you won't be as scared/hesitant to ride a certain way, because you don't wanna drop your brand new 20k bike. That point is one of the best.

2. On the other hand, we have the bike bikes. Hayabusa's, Gsxr 1000s, Zx10R's, R1's etc. Lets say, all pre 2008. These are fine bikes, but they do have an enormous amount of power it could be easy to see someone not pay attention for a few seconds and make a mistake.

3. Then we have the motorcycles of today. The 1299, the Aprilia RSV4, S1000RR, the new R1. All of these bikes have very advanced traction control, wheelie control, stoppie control systems, as well as cutting edge abs.

4. In a recent test, I think it was the Suzuki 750 vs Triumph 675 vs Ducati 899. The Ducati was the only one with ABS, and out braked the others from 60mph by around 25 feet. That is a huge amount.

5. We are coming to the point now when technology can cover a huge amount of rider errors, and at the point now too when, in some cases, the motorcycle is simply faster with the electronics on, because not only do they not hold the bike back anymore they enhance it better than any rider could manually.

6. So, in your opinion, what is safer, a 250 ninja from say 1995, or a brand new Panigale 1299. Most mistakes that happen on a motorcycle can either trash the bike or end your life. If a person hits you from behind or cuts you off forcing you into a guard rail, won't matter what bike you are on. The 1299 has a wet mode, traction control, wheelie and stoppie control, and advanced abs. Would these things not make up for the greater amount of power that the motorcycle has. Would the Ducati by default because of these systems be the safer bike?

To make my response easier to read I assigned your questions a number.

1a. "It will only go as fast as you let it". Key point there. Almost no Man on this planet can control his right wrist 100% of the time while on Superbikes. Its in our DNA to keep that euphoric feeling going and the wrist does that. But your feeling of awesome, omg this is so cool must have more will be over shadowed by your lack of knowledge of how to control that bike at that moment!

1b. Self explanatory. Sound reasoning and intelligence at play there.

2. Yes those bikes were very unforgiving when we made mistakes on them. Look to 3 only the reasons new riders are lucky.

3. Traction control, ABS, wheelie control etc etc etc are all devices that keep you from learning how to control the bike itself. You need to learn how to brake, turn, adjust throttle for lean angle and acceleration rate upon being upright. Let me ask what happens to you mid turn your traction control is holding you tight and shuts off in error and your too hard on the throttle for a non tc bike. You highside, flip, die, get crippled etc. You still don't know how to ride it without it which means you can't actually ride it. It's riding you. Very dangerous.

4. Yep the computer brakes faster than a human can. Yep, guilty. But it wasn't you doing the braking it was the ECU and ABS Module. You still cant ride correctly and within safe limits.

5. You should enhance the bike by riding it. Not being a passenger. see last 2 responses.

6. NO the Panigale isn't a safer bike than a Ninja 250 or 300. The safer bike to start with is the bike that will be more forgiving when you make a mistake which also is a slower bike. At slow speeds you have more time and space to react. At faster speeds you have no reaction time or space really to react.
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 07:51 AM   #43
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Please Sir don't make us Calgarians look bad with the rubbish you are posting. Gracias!
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 01:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Buliwyf View Post
All those bikes you mentioned are perfectly safe if you ride them slow.

They're only dangerous because someone got carried away and exceeded their skill level. An 1199 can exceed the skill level of 90% the people here in just a second or two. (if that)

Yes, the electronics help. A lot. But not if you over cooked a turn, or just plain don't "get it" yet.

So I ride my 1199 like a poser. Slowly learnig and increasing my skill. Enjoying relaxed track days in the novice group. When I want to push my limits, I ride my DRZ400s in the dirt. Dirt riding will teach you not to flinch when the bike slides or jumps around. Do it. A nice street legal DRZ400S cost less than a spare 1199 fuel tank. Sorry, but Ducati SBK's shouldn't ever be someones only bike. Maybe a Monster or other Ducati, but not the SBK's.

Anyone that makes fun of my Chicken strips is a FOOL. There is NO safe practical way to get all of my tire on the ground anywhere on the street. Blind turns and dirty roads. That's just the way it is. And the tires wear square so quick that by the time you get to your scheduled track day, the rear needs replaced anyways. That tire won't have chicken strips, but any tire that doesn't get spooned on before a track day surely will.

The people that chest bump nonsense about Chicken Strips and which bike has 1 more horsepower than the other are the people you need to stay away from. F them. Experienced riders don't bench race and run their mouths. They ride. Eventually you'll be able to spot them easy. Avoid the perpetual squids.

(Perpetual Squids=Squids that never grow up, 40 year old squids with 20 years experience that can get owned by any newb with 1 track class under their belts. Just go to Deals Gap for those. They're the same braggarts that refuse to go to a track day, because they know, deep down, that they're going to get owned by a 16 year old girl on an SV. Their fragile little limp EGO's can't handle that. Pathetic.)

I can't ride like the fast guys yet. But I can cross "Ride a real Ducati SBK on a world class permanent road course." of my bucket list. Most people don't get to experience that. And my ego isn't going to get hurt by a 16 year old girl passing me and showing me all the fast lines on the track.
You pretty much understand everything I was trying to get across, awesome man, I feel like I have just found a kindred soul, haha! You are forced to be my friend now

Jokes aside, I agree with just about everything you said. I have no ego when it comes to bikes, besides wanting something I feel cool and awesome on. I don't want to impress anyone, and would hate to be that tool who humiliates himself trying to show off to people he doesn't even know.

I doubt I can ride like fast guys either, even if I start out proper with a small bike. I'm very cautious and I don't like doing things that cause unnecessary risk. Besides wanting a motorcycle that is.

Last edited by SecretlyaFish; Apr 28th 2015 at 01:07 PM.
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 01:08 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by love2ride View Post
Please Sir don't make us Calgarians look bad with the rubbish you are posting. Gracias!
Please don't be threatened or upset by my difference of opinion, it makes me sad! Only one who looks bad here is you! You can't even make a post that is on the topics point. Go find another area to complain you idiot. Muchos gracias!
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 02:25 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SecretlyaFish View Post
You pretty much understand everything I was trying to get across, awesome man, I feel like I have just found a kindred soul.
Not really - I think you read the "all these bikes are safe if you ride them slow" and got all excited, but skipped the part where he said "a [1299] can exceed the skill level of 90% the people here in just a second or two" - that's the key point

This thread is dumb, but the bottom line is no one except a 70 year old grandma or a video game playing little geek rides these bikes without opening them up, and a 190 hp superbike is not for beginners
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 02:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by SecretlyaFish View Post
Only one who looks bad here is you!
I think most members on here would disagree with that but carry on!
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 03:00 PM   #48
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Is a squid Secretyafish ?
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 07:20 PM   #49
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To the OP... The newer the better in my opinion. I used to work as a mechanic and don't want to spend time rebuilding an old bike. If you get the 1299, keep it in wet mode for the first year. You can't possibly comprehend how fast it is in sport/race.

Wet mode is similar to a 600cc sport bike. You'll still probably get in over your head, so wear your gear and keep your wits about you.
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Old Apr 28th 2015, 10:17 PM   #50
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I Ride: Panigale V4S
Which is safer to ride as a first bike?-_12.jpg

Looks pretty safe to me........
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