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Old Dec 6th 2017, 03:10 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by cpekz View Post
Well, even with the unveiling and open pre-orders for the V4's I just traded in my '16 1299S for a '16 Panigale R
Smart man, you won't regret it!!
Did the same thing.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 10:47 AM   #152
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i think the V4 overall is pretty disappointing. here is my humble theory as to why:

back in the early 2010s when Ducati designed the original panigale, they had the full blessing from VW to spend as much as they wanted on the development of the bike. while the 1199 panigale was not perfect, the superquadro engine in itself was an engineering marvel and it truly pushed the envelope. subsequent models like the superleggera R and 1299 improved in an already excellent platform.

Now the V4 was developed under the cloud of dieselgate, by this time vw did not have the funds to spend as they did back when the original panigale was developed and we primarily see this in the weight of the bike, anyone wonder why they are using the same exact rims as the old panigale on the S trim? yes you might excuse the weight gains to the extra 2 cylinders but it makes you question, from the manufacturer that released the lightest production bike about a year ago, cant they find weight savings anywhere else to upset the weight of the engine? another thing that makes me wonder if costs were cut is the stradale V4 engine itself. after reading all the technical articles about it, i see this engine is not sleeved like the the old superquadro engine. when their moto GP engines are sleeved, if this engine was truly derived from its race counterpart why not feature that in the road version? they cant argue reliability, as panigales have reported over 60k miles on their engines without major issues. another thing. the v4 uses the same suspension as the 1299 save for electronics. but why not develop different a different suspension as there was definitely room for improvement on the 1299 suspension?

in all i am glad ducati went with a V4 engine but i will not buy one until it has been tried and tested. I think ducati held back a lot on this bike (due to financial issues i hope) and I cant wait till VW is back in their feet an can provide Ducati with open checkbooks as they did before. I truly believe Ducati has the potential of making a killer V4 motorcycle. is the 2018 panigale v4 that bike? no. is it impressive still? yes, could it be better? oh yes!

I am also in the same bandwagon of keeping my 1299s as it is the last of its kind and the best of its kind there was.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 03:35 PM   #153
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They did get smart and dump the Marsucki forks on the base for Showa.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 03:36 PM   #154
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I thought sleeving was only done if there wasn't enough material between the cylinders. It adds more weight to sleeve then just Nikasil the bores correct?
Maybe somebody can chime in
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 05:19 PM   #155
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Ummm, just a few problems with your humble theory...

First, VW didn't acquire Ducati until after the Panigale was already in full production, so they had zero say in it's development. Investindustrial would've had that call.
As for the sleeving, the original design 1199 had aluminum cylinders with a Nikasil coating, but when they punched it out to a 1299, they would not have had room to put larger aluminum cylinders in without redoing the entire engine to make room for the coolant channels, so they used thinner iron sleeves, still with a Nikasil coating, that have the same outer diameter as the 1199's aluminum ones. That was a $ saving move right there that added about 1.25 pounds to the engine, but it made perfect sense at the time.
And of course the suspension, while still electronically-controlled Ohlins on the S, is otherwise not at all the same. It's completely different in the back, with different shock, mounting, linkage, etc., and at either end, nobody outside Ducati and Ohlins at this point knows anything about valve stacks or spring rates or the algorithms in the Ohlins control unit.

Compared to any other Superbike engine you can buy, save maybe the WSBK spec RSV4 Aprilia sells in hyper-limited quantities and Ducati's own R and SL versions of the V2 Panigale, I see zero evidence of corner cutting. That's a hell of a motor! One can reasonably take issue with other design choices in the V4, but the motor's hard to argue with. When that thing shows up in R or SL trim it's going to be nuts; not far from it now...

Originally Posted by wrussi View Post
i think the V4 overall is pretty disappointing. here is my humble theory as to why:

back in the early 2010s when Ducati designed the original panigale, they had the full blessing from VW to spend as much as they wanted on the development of the bike. while the 1199 panigale was not perfect, the superquadro engine in itself was an engineering marvel and it truly pushed the envelope. subsequent models like the superleggera R and 1299 improved in an already excellent platform.

Now the V4 was developed under the cloud of dieselgate, by this time vw did not have the funds to spend as they did back when the original panigale was developed and we primarily see this in the weight of the bike, anyone wonder why they are using the same exact rims as the old panigale on the S trim? yes you might excuse the weight gains to the extra 2 cylinders but it makes you question, from the manufacturer that released the lightest production bike about a year ago, cant they find weight savings anywhere else to upset the weight of the engine? another thing that makes me wonder if costs were cut is the stradale V4 engine itself. after reading all the technical articles about it, i see this engine is not sleeved like the the old superquadro engine. when their moto GP engines are sleeved, if this engine was truly derived from its race counterpart why not feature that in the road version? they cant argue reliability, as panigales have reported over 60k miles on their engines without major issues. another thing. the v4 uses the same suspension as the 1299 save for electronics. but why not develop different a different suspension as there was definitely room for improvement on the 1299 suspension?

in all i am glad ducati went with a V4 engine but i will not buy one until it has been tried and tested. I think ducati held back a lot on this bike (due to financial issues i hope) and I cant wait till VW is back in their feet an can provide Ducati with open checkbooks as they did before. I truly believe Ducati has the potential of making a killer V4 motorcycle. is the 2018 panigale v4 that bike? no. is it impressive still? yes, could it be better? oh yes!

I am also in the same bandwagon of keeping my 1299s as it is the last of its kind and the best of its kind there was.
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Last edited by Steve B; Jan 9th 2018 at 05:23 PM.
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Old Jan 9th 2018, 05:25 PM   #156
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Thanks for the real info!!
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Old Jan 22nd 2018, 12:22 PM   #157
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After a lot of deliberation, V-twin for now, V4 a bit later
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Old Jan 22nd 2018, 10:40 PM   #158
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VW/Audi bought Ducati around April 2012. Diesel gate broke around September 2015.......... I think there is some substance to this theory about V4 budget constraints. Ducati even had one of their top designers leave around this.

Last edited by Mutt1979; Jan 22nd 2018 at 10:42 PM.
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 10:07 AM   #159
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According to motorcycle.com:

"Ducati says the Panigale V4 is the biggest investment the company has ever made in a single product, four years in development,..."

2018 Ducati Panigale V4 First Ride Review: 10 Things You Need To Know

If this is true, Dieselgate had little to no effect.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 05:36 AM   #160
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From what i have seen from motorcylist, bike world, and 44 teeth. The V4 looks killer and the base model doesnt have the crapolla marzocchi forks anymore.
Thank God for the big piston showa.
My base 1299 suspension was crap so a track day wasnt even a option. Lol
I caught wind of the V4 coming down the road and sold the 1299. So i bought a 1098s to get me thorough the 2018 season and hopefully will buy a V4 base in 2019. Throw a ohlins out back and tweak
the showa forks and keep it forever. I would prefer the S model but wifey would faintif she googled the S model.. lmao
Will be interesting to read about riding the V4 off track and hearing about how much heat is coming off engine and exhaust. It has to be better than 1199/1299. And its nice to see the eletronic ohlins rear shock cables are no longer going to be digging into our thighs anymore like the 1199/1299 S model and R model years that had eletronic suspension. From a design stand point i dont understand how that was even acceptable for a motorcycle of that calber to have such a design flaw. Strange

There all nice and their all special just put some exhau st on them... lol
Ride safe
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