Go Back   Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Ducati 1299

Ducati 1299 Ducati 1299 Forum - Ducati 1299 Panigale Superbike Motorcycle Forum


Thanks Tree4Thanks
  • 4 Post By Calderara di Reno
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jan 4th 2019, 11:11 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Calderara di Reno's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 386
Thanks: 184

Help please, trail settings

Long story short....over a year ago after repairing my 1299 base from a track high side, I ended up replacing the triple clamps with a nice set of IMA adjustables. Thinking the "0" bush was Ducati std offset (30mm), I used these, over 12mths later i have discovered they are actually 28mm offset bushes and i have had way to much trail. I have now installed the correct bush that equates to the oem clamps. Research indicates that Ducati has a trail number of 95mm. I have my forks up through the top IMA clamp 9mm and only just hitting a trail number of 100mm . Rear height is std. I dont have anything std to make a front ride height measure from now with the IMA clamps installed .
Is it correct that the trail numbers are measured with the bike suspended and the tires just touching the floor , ie suspension fully extended ? Has anyone done this and have a number for me to compare . I'm trying to get back to a base factory geometry to work from going forward .
Calderara di Reno is offline  
 
Old Jan 5th 2019, 05:05 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Calderara di Reno's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 386
Thanks: 184

After a beer or two I have answered my own question , for those that may be ineterested .
The factory must quote trail numbers with the bike sitting vertically with its own sag, I have found articles and people saying that the bike must be suspended , because that is the only constant with suspension fully extended. It is impossible to get 95-100 mm trail that way. Just with 2mm less offset in the clamps will increase the trail by maybe X5. You can see how important it is to get rider sag in the ball park to , especially in the front . Hope this helps someone else .
Calderara di Reno is offline  
Old Jan 6th 2019, 07:09 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
bradp51's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Posts: 2,763
Thanks: 1272

I Ride: 2012 1199S - 2006 Husaberg 450E BMW K1300S 1978 Ducati 900SSD
Originally Posted by Calderara di Reno View Post
After a beer or two I have answered my own question , for those that may be ineterested .
The factory must quote trail numbers with the bike sitting vertically with its own sag, I have found articles and people saying that the bike must be suspended , because that is the only constant with suspension fully extended. It is impossible to get 95-100 mm trail that way. Just with 2mm less offset in the clamps will increase the trail by maybe X5. You can see how important it is to get rider sag in the ball park to , especially in the front . Hope this helps someone else .
When I purchased my Panigale back in May 2012, I had been off bikes for over 28 years and had forgotten a lot of theory. I went and purchased a book called "Sportbike Suspension Tuning" written by Andrew Trevitt and published in 2008 by David Bull Publishing. I got it on Amazon and it was not expensive. It is a fantastic book written in simple language with great diagrams and pictures.

I started experimenting with adjusting rear ride height and soon found it made such a difference to the steering that I went back to OEM and went and had SAG set by a Ohlins professional (Terry Hays Shock Treatment, for those in Sydney) and then I went back to starting again.

The book above defines

"Trail as refers to the dimension from where the steering axis intersects the ground to the center of the front tire's contact patch. Imagine a line drawn through the steering head, which in most cases is parallel to the fork tubes. That line will pass just behind the front axle and meet the ground a few inches in front of the tires contact patch. The measurement from that point to the contact patch (which is directly under the axle) is the trail. Trail is determined by - and can be calculated from - rake, the offset of the triple clamps and tire diameter, and generally falls between 80 and 100mm."

The above is a direct quote from the book. Cal I know you know all about this. I just remember that in the book later he talks about getting sag set and then making adjustments from there. This relates to what you mentioned in your first post about having the bike suspended etc. Trevitt implies that sag should be set before doing any adjustments. It is a really great book and I recommend it. I just checked before posting this and you can get this book on Amazon for $24.95 AUD. Looking at my buying history I purchased it 4 months before I bought my Panigale. I will be changing the rear spring on my bike soon so I will head back to Shock Treatment to get the sag set again. It is best done with 3 people and yourself sitting on the bike.
bradp51 is offline  
Old Jan 6th 2019, 08:52 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Calderara di Reno's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 386
Thanks: 184

I have had a bitch of a run with set up on my bike, some my fault, some just strange happenings.

I fitted Mupo cartridges and rear shock which all started off well then i fiddled to much and lost direction with ride heights etc. I've been getting massive weave issues exiting fast corners getting on the gas , like T12 at Phillip Island. It looks similar to the way Melandris bike was behaving only I never kept it pinned like he does !

The brass threaded bushes inside the Mupo kept coming out of place and would then end up off the their threads so I could never get preload adjustments. Fixed these by making a spacer to hold it in place

Ive been using Penrite fluids and changed fork oil to Penrite 5w during fixing these other issues and lost full stroke of my forks. Researched where Penrites 5w sits amongst other brands and the viscosity was more like a 10w .

I actually had about 113mm of trail with the wrong offset bushes in , amazing !

So hopefully I have this thing sorted now, because I started thinking V4.
Calderara di Reno is offline  
Reply

  Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Ducati 1299

Tags
settings, trail



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torque settings. Southwest Ducati 1299 1 Jul 28th 2017 07:21 AM
1199 R settings? Sonnythebull Ducati 1199 1 Aug 31st 2013 03:39 AM
Watch my bud demo ride the "s" as i trail on mine DUCENZO Ducati 1199 18 Jul 16th 2013 11:36 AM
torque settings. mark419ny Mechanical and Technical 2 Nov 19th 2012 09:26 AM
Engine Breaking or Trail Breaking..? DUCENZO Racing 27 Jul 21st 2012 06:44 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed