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Old Mar 27th 2018, 03:14 PM   #1
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Reconciling run-in instructions with Dyno

So for all bikes I've ever owned, the manuals talk about keeping the revs low during the breakin period. I hear now about having it done on the Dyno to get good seating of seals to avoid oil leaks and other problems later. I assume that means some high-revs.
How to reconcile these? What's right?
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Old Mar 27th 2018, 03:19 PM   #2
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Read the owners manual and follow what Ducati recommend .
There was a post I read recently by a member I think Shazzam ?
It was the best well written post about the break in period I have read it should become a sticky .
Wish I could find it .
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Old Mar 27th 2018, 03:29 PM   #3
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Ok found it

From another forum but a well educated explanation of breaking in a bike .

Every Ducati engine is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in that you read in your Owners Manual has little to do with piston ring sealing. Itís meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts.

The initial break-in period is actually the final finishing step in manufacturing an engine. At the factory, Ducati hones the cylinder walls to a fine finish, grinds cams to accurate, smooth profiles, and makes connecting rod journals to high standards of roundness and accuracy. But, metal surfaces are still microscopically rough, consisting of tiny peaks and valleys. When you start a new engine, these surfaces must slide over each other and wherever the peaks stick up higher than the local oil film thickness, metal hits metal, welds momentarily from the intense local pressure, and then tears away. The oil flushes away these bits of metal, and the oil filter removes them from circulation.

This process works quickly at first, then more slowly as break-in proceeds. Once the high spots are knocked off or pushed down, the roughness of the surfaces no longer sticks above the oil films. Piston rings have filed themselves into a fine fit to their cylinders. Bearings spin without metal-to-metal contact, on full oil films.

If you decide to ignore Ducatiís recommendation that engine rpm be limited for the break-in period and instead you run at high rpm and heavy throttle, the wear process may generate more heat and metal debris than the lubrication system can handle. Then the result is destruction of contact surfaces in some parts of the engine.

If you use Ducatiís break-in method and gradually build up to higher revs and throttle, the washing action of the oil will keep up with the generation of wear particles, and the surfaces will bed into each other in such a way that the oil film can carry the load.

Finally, the initial period of moderate operation needs to be followed by some hard acceleration and brief trips to the red line. Sustained, high-speed operation is not a good idea because it provides no wash time at low load, during which the oil system can flush away any wear particles.
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 03:06 AM   #4
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Fwiw, look up running in a aircraft piston engine. Yes I know it’s a agricultural item , but it’s a engine right ?
What is very important here is manifold pressure. This is needed to seat the rings properly.
Without seating, we have glazing and continued high oil usage.
Sometimes the oil usage remains high and requires a hone and new rings.

Now I know it’s not a bike engine, and I am no engineer. However I have run in many engines using the keep manifold pressure as a key ingredient.
Touch wood, I have never blown a engine, had noticeable oil consumption or had a engine that underperformed compared to same type.

Just my 2c. Fwiw.
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 03:14 AM   #5
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That was very informative. Thank you so much for that. I'm hopefully receiving my V4 in 2 weeks and have always wondered about the break in period. I always follow the manual for break in but you hear so many different ideas on how to do it.

So what I gathered from what you posted is to follow the break in period instructions but every now and then give a bit of throttle over 6krpm just to take it through the rev range. Is that right?
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 03:35 AM   #6
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Yep occasionally take it to red line but don’t hold it there most likely not too often .
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 03:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
Fwiw, look up running in a aircraft piston engine. Yes I know itís a agricultural item , but itís a engine right ?
What is very important here is manifold pressure. This is needed to seat the rings properly.
Without seating, we have glazing and continued high oil usage.
Sometimes the oil usage remains high and requires a hone and new rings.

Now I know itís not a bike engine, and I am no engineer. However I have run in many engines using the keep manifold pressure as a key ingredient.
Touch wood, I have never blown a engine, had noticeable oil consumption or had a engine that underperformed compared to same type.

Just my 2c. Fwiw.
Yep your right itís not a bike engine . The process your reading is for a brand new engine not a rebuilt engine or reconditioned the process of this run in will involve bedding in the rings the factory has already done this .
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 03:43 AM   #8
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The follow up also written by Shazam

Thereís a reason for the confusion about break-in methodsóthe method is different for new engines and rebuilt engines. What the engine manufacturers recommend for a new engine post-delivery break-in should not be construed as the best solution for a rebuilt engineóhereís why.
The manufacturer controls the complete quality assurance and quality control process: design, fabrication, build, inspection and testing. The overall result is not necessarily better than can be achieved by a custom engine builder, just more consistent.
So when a manufacturer first fires-up each new engine on a test stand, they know from experience (and monitoring each engineís exhaust oil combustion products) that the piston rings will seat properly before the engine leaves the factory.
Every Ducati is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in (that you read in your Owners Manual) has little to do with piston ring sealing. Itís meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts like bearings and gears.
However, when you rebuild an engine you can introduce a number of variables (that affect glazing) that are different from a new engine such as piston ring material, clearances (that affects ring pressure on the wall) and cylinder wall surface finish. Also, not all engine re-builders have complete, accurate control over their cylinder-wall finish and ring type like the manufacturers.
Cylinder wall glazing occurs when the engine is run at power levels too low to produce temperatures high enough to expand the piston rings sufficiently to prevent a film of oil being left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates a condition commonly called glazing. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption can occur. Excessive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and re-honing the walls.
Consequently, for a rebuild, you shouldnít use an Owners Manual-style break-in method. You need to reproduce the Ducati factory dyno runs to avoid cylinder glazing. One way is to monitor tailpipe hydrocarbons to see when they drop during dyno runs. The other way is to ride it like you stole it.
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 11:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by wilkson View Post
The follow up also written by Shazam

Thereís a reason for the confusion about break-in methodsóthe method is different for new engines and rebuilt engines. What the engine manufacturers recommend for a new engine post-delivery break-in should not be construed as the best solution for a rebuilt engineóhereís why.
The manufacturer controls the complete quality assurance and quality control process: design, fabrication, build, inspection and testing. The overall result is not necessarily better than can be achieved by a custom engine builder, just more consistent.
So when a manufacturer first fires-up each new engine on a test stand, they know from experience (and monitoring each engineís exhaust oil combustion products) that the piston rings will seat properly before the engine leaves the factory.
Every Ducati is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in (that you read in your Owners Manual) has little to do with piston ring sealing. Itís meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts like bearings and gears.
However, when you rebuild an engine you can introduce a number of variables (that affect glazing) that are different from a new engine such as piston ring material, clearances (that affects ring pressure on the wall) and cylinder wall surface finish. Also, not all engine re-builders have complete, accurate control over their cylinder-wall finish and ring type like the manufacturers.
Cylinder wall glazing occurs when the engine is run at power levels too low to produce temperatures high enough to expand the piston rings sufficiently to prevent a film of oil being left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates a condition commonly called glazing. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption can occur. Excessive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and re-honing the walls.
Consequently, for a rebuild, you shouldnít use an Owners Manual-style break-in method. You need to reproduce the Ducati factory dyno runs to avoid cylinder glazing. One way is to monitor tailpipe hydrocarbons to see when they drop during dyno runs. The other way is to ride it like you stole it.
Thanks for the insight. Only talking new aircraft. engines. It will take aircraft rings 10 to 15 hours to seat properly. I have run in 3 new engines in my life, so itís hardly a massive example base.
All 3 took more than 10 hours before CHT drops noticeably. This occurred in flight, and if carefully monitored using good digital equipment can even be graphed on a computer on terra firma.

Just after this period, the oil consumption hardly drops on the dipstick after a long flight.

From your post you obviously have experience in the motor trade. Why does a new aircraft engine take 10 to 15 hours to seat rings, yet a water cooled motor does it in a fraction.
Different materials ? Tolerances ? Rev range ?

Also new vehicles do seem to use more oil at first. Surely this is from the rings ?
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Old Mar 28th 2018, 02:55 PM   #10
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Craig McMartin took his base V4 to Eastern Creek last week and ran a 1:34 as fully stock after only having the bike for a few days and there is no way he kept the revs down doing those kick ass times. In fact he tweeted a screen grab showing 1'34"60 and max speed 297km/h and max rpm 14100. I'm guessing that bike is now run in good and proper.
Each to their own but I'm getting my 1st service done next week and heading to the track the day after and my personal run in was be respectful but give it plenty
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