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Old Nov 29th 2018, 09:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Desmolvr View Post
The RSV4 1100 Factory was at the IMS show and it does look dated. The BMW is not supposed to be out until summer or early fall as dealers have 2019 bikes now (same as 2018). Based on previous reviews and those that do them I think it will go to the S1000RR IMHO.

I will add that having owned most except the S1000RR I think the Ducati V4 is tops (sounds biased). The things they will knock (heat, no cruise & cost).
Don't forget non heated grips
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Old Dec 1st 2018, 03:23 AM   #22
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I Ride: 2018 V4S, 2017 R1M, 2016 S1000RR
I bought a new 2016 S1000RR in March of 2017, as the 2017 just added a more restrictive exhaust. I got the RR with every option for 15K and change before tax and license.

I bought a new 2017 R1M in April of 2017 for 21.5K before tax and license.

I bought a new V4S this June and had the Akrapovic race system added from the dealer before it was delivered. I'm still doing the break in miles so I'll leave it out of this discussion for now.

I was instantly comfortable on the BMW. The R1M felt unfamiliar right off the bat.

My observations:

Brakes - The R1M brakes were noticeably weak from the beginning with little feedback and inspire little confidence. They need a lot of squeeze to coax them to stop. The RR brakes are very strong with great feedback. The closest I've seen a review acknowledge this with the R1M is "the brakes could have been stronger."

Wheels and general handling - R1M has magnesium wheels versus RR's forged aluminum. I think the BMW feels better in low speed corners and maneuvers despite the heavier weight. Once moving I don't feel the R1M is more agile. If you set the corner entry well, high speed corners favor the R1M. It feels more stable.

Valve stems - The R1M comes with straight rubber valve stems mounted on wheels that need angled valve stems desperately for clearance. The BMW comes with angled aluminum valve stems. Seriously Yamaha? Couldn't spring the couple of extra dollars?

Amenities - BMW has heated grips (a plus) and cruise (which I've never used).

Display - Overall the R1M display is nicer, but the shift light is tiny and easily missed. RR dedicated shift light is large, bright, very programmable and will get your attention.

Throttle - R1M set to the most aggressive throttle response is on and off with little in between. It also needs more throttle twist to get significant punch out it. RR is more linear with less twist needed.

Transmission - R1M transmission feels stronger when engaging. BMW does clutchless upshifts and downshifts. R1M only does upshifts (2017 model).

Warranty - BMW warranty covers almost everything for 3 years. Batteries were gone at about 18 months for both. Yamaha standard and extended warranty didn't cover it. BMW standard warranty replaced it at no charge. I bought a Shorai for the R1M.

Exhaust - BMW has the nicest stock exhaust note of any bike I've had, but it isn't as friendly to a midpipe/cat replacement as the R1M. R1M exhaust is very quiet.

Seat - R1M seat height is tall and feels like a block of wood over bumps. BMW seat is lower and extremely comfortable even over bumps.

Acceleration - R1M doesn't feel strong at low and midrange rpms. Give the R1M a lot of throttle at 4K rpm and the motor doesn't respond well and actually feels/sounds like it's protesting. RR feels much quicker and stronger. Below 8-9K rpm I'll take the BMW. At higher rpms they're both strong and without timing them I couldn't say which is faster.

IMHO the R1M isn't worth the extra money over the BMW. I haven't even decided if I'm going to keep the R1M. If I do I'll have to do something about the brakes and the blipper. For what it cost I shouldn't have to do anything to it.

I myself will probably trade my RR in for the new one with the M package. Significantly lighter with carbon wheels, more power and variable cam timing.

If I keep the R1M it will need pads at a minimum, an up/down blipper and ECU flash. Will likely replace the cat/midpipe and keep the rest of the exhaust stock (titanium). I would consider trading it in on something, but don't anticipate it will fetch much.

I will consider the Aprilia Factory 1100, but I'm afraid it's just a placeholder to be replaced the following year with a more comprehensive V4. I have just enough space for another bike in the garage, but it will be tight.

I won't be surprised to see the RR knock off the R1M. I'm not sure it's fair to compare the Aprilia and Ducati to the true liter bikes, but that seems to be the trend lately. If so, I wouldn't be shocked to see both of them above the R1M as well.

My guess would be Ducati, Aprilia, BMW and Yamaha in that order. If price is a consideration the Aprilia and BMW may be at the top.

Another 500 miles of break in for the Ducati before I'll check out the top end. I'm mostly obeying the 7K rpm recommendation, but it's tough.

San
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Old Dec 1st 2018, 02:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
Agree mostly with what u guys say. But there will be a track winner and a street winner.
Iíd guess chassis will take the track so thatís a Ape.
Comfort , engine and looks will take street. So thatís the Duc.
It leaves the Bmw. 100cc down, less character and cheap feeling in certain depts.
But it may be a good all rounder ?

One thing about the BMW I think sucks, are those no name brakes. Whatever Haynes are, if they were any good, why havenít Most of us heard of them. And they look cheap ass.
The old BMW brembos were brilliant .
But hey, Iím gonna wait and reserve judgement till I ride one.
I think you mean Hayes, maker of mountain bike hydraulic and mechanical brakes, which is what they're rumored to be. A friend that has a friend that tests for BMW says they're in house brakes, so I'm not sure who to believe at this point. He also says they're outstanding, so the jury is still out IMHO.

Another thing to consider is that the BMW is likely Euro5 emissions ready, which means the horsepower rating is probably very conservative, fairly normal for them. There is probably a good amount of power left on the table that a pipe and tune will uncork. We'll see.

The brakes on my 16 RR are fantastic. Great bite, feedback and never any fade for me. Whether it's the Brembos, master cylinder, ABS etc., they feel worlds above the R1M brakes, which may not suck, but compared to the RR they do. I'm really surprised that Yamaha hasn't done something about them, and disappointed that reviewers leave this out.

I haven't ridden the Aprilia, old or new, but the feedback is usually the same. Great chassis, always high marks for mid-corner feel and consistent results. I think the factory 1100 could be a spoiler if the price is right, and is likely just a precursor to maintain their market share until a new V4 is introduced.

I honestly haven't fully ridden the V4S yet, as I'm still breaking it in.

Always a good thing when there is plenty of competition.

San
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Old Dec 1st 2018, 08:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
I think you mean Hayes, maker of mountain bike hydraulic and mechanical brakes, which is what they're rumored to be. A friend that has a friend that tests for BMW says they're in house brakes, so I'm not sure who to believe at this point. He also says they're outstanding, so the jury is still out IMHO.

Another thing to consider is that the BMW is likely Euro5 emissions ready, which means the horsepower rating is probably very conservative, fairly normal for them. There is probably a good amount of power left on the table that a pipe and tune will uncork. We'll see.

The brakes on my 16 RR are fantastic. Great bite, feedback and never any fade for me. Whether it's the Brembos, master cylinder, ABS etc., they feel worlds above the R1M brakes, which may not suck, but compared to the RR they do. I'm really surprised that Yamaha hasn't done something about them, and disappointed that reviewers leave this out.

I haven't ridden the Aprilia, old or new, but the feedback is usually the same. Great chassis, always high marks for mid-corner feel and consistent results. I think the factory 1100 could be a spoiler if the price is right, and is likely just a precursor to maintain their market share until a new V4 is introduced.

I honestly haven't fully ridden the V4S yet, as I'm still breaking it in.

Always a good thing when there is plenty of competition.

San
Hayes yes. As far asR1 brakes go I agree. I have one myself. The Rr is streets ahead.having said that, I race a zx and a few guys I know race R1. They reckon brakes are fine, just lack initial bite and feed back.
They are super fast and I canít argue.
But personally, like you, I find the R1 brakes shite.
Gotta give Ducati their due, they donít cheap out like the RR
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Old Dec 2nd 2018, 05:38 AM   #25
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Anyone has pricing on the new s1000rr?

Is it going to be the same price as a V4S?
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Old Dec 2nd 2018, 08:55 AM   #26
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The word is that the M package is going to be around $26K.
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Old Dec 2nd 2018, 03:18 PM   #27
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16 base, 22,5 for the M package, rumor has it.

I personally like the dash much better on the Bmw than on the V4. By far the technology is far better on the Bmw from the looks of it. I cant wait for a comparison
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Old Dec 2nd 2018, 04:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Nev3rL8 View Post
16 base, 22,5 for the M package, rumor has it.

I personally like the dash much better on the Bmw than on the V4. By far the technology is far better on the Bmw from the looks of it. I cant wait for a comparison
Yes, i heard something like 22 for the m package,
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Old Dec 3rd 2018, 12:57 AM   #29
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I Ride: 2012 BMW K1300R special edition, 2019 Panigale V4 Speciale and a Vespa GTS 300 Super
Originally Posted by Veteran View Post
Agree mostly with what u guys say. But there will be a track winner and a street winner.
Iíd guess chassis will take the track so thatís a Ape.
Comfort , engine and looks will take street. So thatís the Duc.
It leaves the Bmw. 100cc down, less character and cheap feeling in certain depts.
But it may be a good all rounder ?

One thing about the BMW I think sucks, are those no name brakes. Whatever Haynes are, if they were any good, why havenít Most of us heard of them. And they look cheap ass.
The old BMW brembos were brilliant .
But hey, Iím gonna wait and reserve judgement till I ride one.
That's what I'm saying. Track winner? It's a loose term and subjective at best.

What do you mean track winner? Which bike would post lap records given the same pro rider in the same conditions? Which bike would post most consistent "best lap times"? Which bike would win a race given closely skilled riders with those bikes?

I have 0 experience with the Duc on the track, still braking in yet and I'm new to the Duc family altogether but based on the reviews out there and pro racers, I'd put my money on the Duc, except maybe for the consistency test. Our national champion uses a 1199 (for like 3-4 years if I remember correctly), after switching from an S1000RR.

But I agree with most of what have been said here. A well balanced chassis will take the wins for the average Joe much easier than a powerful engine.

Originally Posted by Twistedracer View Post
Thanks for posting the vid, just watched it.
They say Aprilia has the chassis and Ducati the engine.
The pro racer Shane ďthinksĒ he can get the chassis to work as good as the Aprilia. Thatís hoping and time spent chasing a setup to equal the Aprilia.
So it still comes down to chassis versus engine. Itís easier to cut quick lap times on a bike with a great chassis than a bike with a great engine even for a Pro.
Yes and I agree! That's why it's all that subjective: faster for whom? record lap? consistency? on which track (because that's also a variable - maybe a track that has longer straights favors the Duc better??)
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Old Dec 6th 2018, 12:55 PM   #30
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All 3 are amazing machines and i totally agree that you cant really say one is the best but i think BMW will take the award for 2019.
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