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Old Nov 27th 2018, 07:07 PM   #1
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Suspension Geometry?

Hey All. I'm looking to turn the V4 into a race bike, but I can't find anyone having posted information on the best geometry setup for it. I know Dave Moss did some general suspension videos, but nothing on geometry.

Looking to see if anyone has info or figured out the best height of the forks in the triple trees, height of the rear shock, and distance to the rear axle if it is best to push the wheel closer in or farther back.

My past R1 and RSV4 both had well known geometry recommendations, but I cannot find recommendations on geometry for track and race use. Main track I would be racing at is Chuckwalla in SoCal.

Any help is appreciated!
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Old Nov 27th 2018, 07:54 PM   #2
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Hmmm... Email Dave and see if he can look into it. If I see Dave, I'll ask him.
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Old Nov 27th 2018, 10:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by yzwax View Post
Hey All. I'm looking to turn the V4 into a race bike, but I can't find anyone having posted information on the best geometry setup for it. I know Dave Moss did some general suspension videos, but nothing on geometry.

Looking to see if anyone has info or figured out the best height of the forks in the triple trees, height of the rear shock, and distance to the rear axle if it is best to push the wheel closer in or farther back.

My past R1 and RSV4 both had well known geometry recommendations, but I cannot find recommendations on geometry for track and race use. Main track I would be racing at is Chuckwalla in SoCal.

Any help is appreciated!
Well I will tell you upfront that there Is something wrong with the stock geometry
You definitely want to lower the rear or you will bottom the forks easily on hard braking !
Also, I needed a rear spring way harder than the specs ( 115 instead of a 95 )
And installing the Aella lowering linkage was the best thing I did on the bike ... They lower rear of the bike by 20mm which was a bit too much ... I compensated by lengthening the shock by few mmís to put the bike 16mm lower at rear ...
The bike has FENOMENAL handeling now ... really happy with the result !
Wish I had somebody telling me this before ... I would have saved a lot of time and testings !!!

Enjoy 😉
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 08:05 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SixShock View Post
Hmmm... Email Dave and see if he can look into it. If I see Dave, I'll ask him.
That would be great!
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 08:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Trackmaniak View Post
Well I will tell you upfront that there Is something wrong with the stock geometry
You definitely want to lower the rear or you will bottom the forks easily on hard braking !
Also, I needed a rear spring way harder than the specs ( 115 instead of a 95 )
And installing the Aella lowering linkage was the best thing I did on the bike ... They lower rear of the bike by 20mm which was a bit too much ... I compensated by lengthening the shock by few mmís to put the bike 16mm lower at rear ...
The bike has FENOMENAL handeling now ... really happy with the result !
Wish I had somebody telling me this before ... I would have saved a lot of time and testings !!!

Enjoy 😉
Interesting. How much do you weigh with gear by chance? Any do you notice this street riding or on track? I weight 225lbs with gear and have previously run 1.0 rear springs on track for racing my old bikes.
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 09:22 AM   #6
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I Ride: 2018 Speciale #312, 2015 R1 Track Bike
I had Dave give me some recommendations I am on an S if that matters. I am 185 without gear. We didn't or have yet to change the geometry. I am running static settings and added 3 turns of pre-load in the front and took 2 out of the back.
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 10:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by yzwax View Post
Interesting. How much do you weigh with gear by chance? Any do you notice this street riding or on track? I weight 225lbs with gear and have previously run 1.0 rear springs on track for racing my old bikes.
Don't do street riding ... track only
... you mean a 100 rear Spring rate ? 1.0 front springs ... ?
I weight 178-180 without gear
I'm using a Ohlins TTX ( mechanical ) rear shock and Ohlins FKR ( mechanical ) forks
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 10:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Trackmaniak View Post
Well I will tell you upfront that there Is something wrong with the stock geometry

You definitely want to lower the rear or you will bottom the forks easily on hard braking !

Also, I needed a rear spring way harder than the specs ( 115 instead of a 95 )

And installing the Aella lowering linkage was the best thing I did on the bike ... They lower rear of the bike by 20mm which was a bit too much ... I compensated by lengthening the shock by few mmís to put the bike 16mm lower at rear ...

The bike has FENOMENAL handeling now ... really happy with the result !

Wish I had somebody telling me this before ... I would have saved a lot of time and testings !!!



Enjoy


Just wondering did you lower the rear as a separate job or was it done at the same time as your other suspension mods?
What handling problem did it rectify other than brake dive on the front and what did you notice?


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Old Nov 29th 2018, 07:06 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Motzarelli View Post
Just wondering did you lower the rear as a separate job or was it done at the same time as your other suspension mods?
What handling problem did it rectify other than brake dive on the front and what did you notice?


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Always do one mod at once ...
First was to find the right rear spring rate ... I started too low and the bike was bouncy exiting a corner under hard acceleration ... went from .95 to 115 step by stem ( .95 ... 105 then 115 ) ... this problem was solved
Next was to to adjust the front ... had 1.0 springs In the forks which was hard enough ... but since the bike was too high In from the rear AND BY FAR !!! I had to lower It ... From the shock you only have 2-4mm adjustment ... so I had to find loweing links and Aella are the only ones so far to do It ...
Started with NOT touching the shock height adjustment and addindg JUST the links ( was then 20mm lower at the rear ) . The front fork travel was now back to a more NORMAL position but I was even now lacking a little bit of fork travel ... I then extended the rear shock to put the rear 16mm lower than stock and now the setup Is PERFECT !
If you are an average rider you probably won't notice this and enjoy riding the bike as It Is... But If you want to ride this bike hard, you need to do this/these changes ... Or you will not like the ride !

Enjoy
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Old Nov 29th 2018, 11:40 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Trackmaniak View Post
Always do one mod at once ...

First was to find the right rear spring rate ... I started too low and the bike was bouncy exiting a corner under hard acceleration ... went from .95 to 115 step by stem ( .95 ... 105 then 115 ) ... this problem was solved

Next was to to adjust the front ... had 1.0 springs In the forks which was hard enough ... but since the bike was too high In from the rear AND BY FAR !!! I had to lower It ... From the shock you only have 2-4mm adjustment ... so I had to find loweing links and Aella are the only ones so far to do It ...

Started with NOT touching the shock height adjustment and addindg JUST the links ( was then 20mm lower at the rear ) . The front fork travel was now back to a more NORMAL position but I was even now lacking a little bit of fork travel ... I then extended the rear shock to put the rear 16mm lower than stock and now the setup Is PERFECT !

If you are an average rider you probably won't notice this and enjoy riding the bike as It Is... But If you want to ride this bike hard, you need to do this/these changes ... Or you will not like the ride !



Enjoy


Thanks for that. I have a base model and ride road and track and am an average rider. Have ridden for 30+ years and done 50+ track days. I took it to my local well regarded suspension guy Terry Hay (done a few bikes for me) from shock treatment and asked about the standard Showa forks and Sachs shock and he said he can do a lot with them and get them running pretty good. He was going to revalve the front but after riding it and stripping them down to check the valves and shim stacks didnít believe it needed it and just added a little extra oil to get it to sit up a little in the front. He then fully revavled the rear and didnít need to change front or rear springs.
It is a totally different/better bike now. I did track and road before and after and its night and day. Before it had so much harshness in the initial travel it would upset the bike when cornering and hitting bumps. Now it is much firmer though most of the travel but without that jarring.
No doubt could spend a lot on ohlins, matris or similar but for this punter it is great.


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