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Old Jun 21st 2019, 01:02 PM   #71
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That BMW S1000RR was ugly and always will be. What's up with the germans adding the "M" on the bikes now...? Wasn't the "M" to be used on "M" cars only, to show BMW motorsport devision... Now they are slapping that M on every car out of the assembling line to jack up the prices. Its a fantastic S1000RR with 205 HP for $23K with CF wheels. But it can't beat the lines of the exotic look of a Ducati.
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Old Jun 21st 2019, 04:01 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Benocehcap View Post
That BMW S1000RR was ugly and always will be. What's up with the germans adding the "M" on the bikes now...? Wasn't the "M" to be used on "M" cars only, to show BMW motorsport devision... Now they are slapping that M on every car out of the assembling line to jack up the prices. Its a fantastic S1000RR with 205 HP for $23K with CF wheels. But it can't beat the lines of the exotic look of a Ducati.
BMW has only approved the new S1000RR to use the M model moniker. It wasn't easy to get it approved according to Nate Kern.

San
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Old Jun 21st 2019, 06:25 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JHTmcrider View Post


V4S: 211 HP

S1000RR: 204 HP and some TT Wins

They picked the BMW.
Those numbers are rated bhp numbers. If you view the dyno link I pointed out above, you'll see that they state the V4 was just a bit over 200, while the BMW put down 206, both on the same dyno. The BMW is underrated just as BMW stated previously and supposedly has 10-15 more horsepower that is limited only by the exhaust, according to Nate Kern.

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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 12:59 AM   #74
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the best shootout comparison I've ever seen on the web^
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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 01:03 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
Let's put the horsepower numbers into perspective. The new V4, with 1100cc, made 16 more hp than the old BMW S1000RR model (1000cc). Given that an example 1000cc motorcycle makes 200hp, thats 20hp per 100cc. The 16 more hp is actually less than it should be considering displacement, all other things being equal.

The new BMW S1000RR (1000cc) is making more horsepower than the V4 (1100cc) according to this dyno which has tested both:

New BMW S1000RR - Well She Has Some Legs On Her !!!

The new S1000RR with the M package comes with carbon wheels and other upgrades for $5K less than the V4S and ~$1K more than the base V4. A new S1000RR without the M package is ~$3K less than a base V4.

I get it. This is a Ducati forum. I have a V4S and it's a great motorcycle. That doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the rest of the motorcycle manufacturers. It certainly doesn't mean I compare a new model (V4) to the outgoing model of another maker.

The motorcycle market is very competitive. We all want the fastest bike, regardless of if we know what to do with it. Every time a new bike creates more horsepower, lessens weight and improves handling, it's a plus for all of us. It ensures the others step up (except Honda for some reason).

The new S1000RR supposedly has quite a bit of power that is limited by the stock exhaust, and nothing else. Time will tell.

San
That is the MOST HP ive seen the latest bmw make by quite abit. I call bullshit on that dyno. My fav comparison so far is 650ib, he's a street racer who has most of the latest bikes who isnt influenced or sponsored by any company to endorse their product. And he'll roll race all those bikes against each other on the street sooner or later for sure.

Let me know what you think. Explains their potential as well after showing each bikes air fuel ratio etc. The good news is theres quite abit left on these bikes..



I had a look at the new bmw today, its very nice.. Love the massive lcd dash.

I'd still pick the ducati though, a base model s1000rr looks like just another japanese litre bike imo. Cant believe the base model only comes in one color

Btw, whole heartedly agree on your statement, healthy competition forces EVERYONE to lift their game and make a better production vehicle/motorcycle. Which is great for the consumer.
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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 02:02 AM   #76
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I've always thought the BMW's looked like they were built in china so maybe the M stands for
M-andarin.




had to couldn't resist
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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 04:30 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
That is the MOST HP ive seen the latest bmw make by quite abit. I call bullshit on that dyno. My fav comparison so far is 650ib, he's a street racer who has most of the latest bikes who isnt influenced or sponsored by any company to endorse their product. And he'll roll race all those bikes against each other on the street sooner or later for sure.

Let me know what you think. Explains their potential as well after showing each bikes air fuel ratio etc. The good news is theres quite abit left on these bikes..



I had a look at the new bmw today, its very nice.. Love the massive lcd dash.

I'd still pick the ducati though, a base model s1000rr looks like just another japanese litre bike imo. Cant believe the base model only comes in one color

Btw, whole heartedly agree on your statement, healthy competition forces EVERYONE to lift their game and make a better production vehicle/motorcycle. Which is great for the consumer.
First of all I have a V4S, so it's not like I don't like the Ducati. As far as that video, which I watched yesterday morning, I do have a few thoughts.

Regarding the Black and White bikes dyno of the new BMW S1000RR. They clearly state in the video they don't have experience with the BMWs. They also state it was hard for them to get a new one. I don't know why they'd have anything to gain with fudging the numbers, as it doesn't sound like they carry BMW bikes.

With regards to 650ib, he has sponsors and if you think he isn't influenced by them, you clearly haven't seen enough of his videos. The MotoMillion key fobs and hawking the ISSE drinks should be obvious. He's all about racing from a roll on the highway, which is irresponsible to say the least. He also modifies whatever he owns seemingly without any break in period. That said, here are my thoughts on the video, which I coincidentally watched yesterday before I posted.

First, all of the bikes tested had pipes and/or tunes and whatever else done to them, and with no rhyme or reason. I would have preferred to see baseline dyno runs of all the bikes, as the modifications made may have actually hurt the performance of the bikes. I'm addressing the bikes in order of horsepower, from the highest down.

The V4R makes the most power, but even they say that it doesn't really come alive until 12K rpms. It obviously has the race exhuast, a factory tune for the exhaust and aftermarket carbon rims.It also looks to have aftermarket sprockets, so no telling how the gearing affected the dyno results. Far from stock, yet it really didn't make that much more power. As outfitted, it is easily twice the price of any other bike in this 'competition'. Even with the lighter exhaust, wheels etc., it was still a pound heavier than the BMW. As mentioned in the video, there is more power to be made as the current tune is rich. Weight was 423 pounds.

The Aprillia is next. I think most of us have already seen the dyno comparison between it and the V4 (not V4R) and it clearly makes more power. This bike was tuned, and still within 4HP of the V4R and the BMW, despite the 100cc and tune advantage. The Aprilia was the heaviest bike here at 446 pounds.

The BMW is next. It has an exhuast, but doesn't look like a tune to go with it, given how lean it is in the midrange and rich in the higher rpms. It is bested only by the Aprillia, which has a 100cc advantage, and the V4R, which is akin to bringing a gun to a knife fight. As new as it is, I doubt it's long before it makes substantially more power. Like the V4R, there is more power to be made with a tune as this bike was running very rich up top. Weight was 422 pounds.

Next is the ZX10-RR. There are some engine and aero advantages the RR has over the R, at a much higher price. But this RR is stretched, probably geared as well, and no telling what else. The Kawasakis have always been known to have strong motors, especially up top, but it just goes to show how competitive the bike market is today. This was the lightest bike at 411 pounds.

Next up is a ZX10-R, at 1HP less than the RR, which shows that the RR probably has modifications that have taken away from the stock power it once had. Weight was 444 pounds, second heaviest.

Last was the R1M. Despite an exhuast, tune by the shop hosting the dyno and carbon rims, it was the least strong here. It was the second lightest bike here.

So, if money is no object the V4R is tough to beat for both power and weight. The Aprilia makes good power, but is heavy. The BMW is tough to beat for the money, making the second best numbers for true liter bikes, and being very light. The ZX10-RR is so modified it will only do one thing well, go fast in a straight line. The ZX10-R makes good power for the money but is heavy. The R1M comes in last for power, despite extensive modifications, and bang for buck isn't there given the competition. It is light, but without a serious refresh, isn't a bike I'd consider right now, and I own one.

Flame suit on. Fire at will.

San
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Old Jun 22nd 2019, 10:32 PM   #78
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650ib did do a dyno test of all 3 bikes in stock form.

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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 12:01 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by PanigaleV4S View Post
650ib did do a dyno test of all 3 bikes in stock form.

Thanks. I hadn't seen that one and is far more relevant, at least to me.

This shows that the Black and White Motorcycles dyno video I linked to above was in fact accurate as they showed the BMW to have about 6hp more than the V4 (not the V4S). This video shows the BMW a full 8hp above the V4R. In defense of the V4R, it was brand new, with no break-in miles. The Aprilia was only .5hp less than the BMW, despite the 100cc advantage. Again, it just shows how competitive the motorcycle brands are.

The BMW was the lightest, by only 1 pound over the V4R, with the Aprilia 20 pounds heavier than the V4R.

In stock form, the BMW S1000RR with the M option is the least expensive, the lightest, and boasts the most horsepower of the three. ln defense of the Aprilia, it has the largest tank.

It seemed like the BMW also reached it's redline more quickly than the others. Hard to say if that was because of rider input, gearing or maybe BMW's ShiftCam?

San
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 05:41 AM   #80
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https://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu...irst-ride.html

quite a few complaints, some that can be remedied by paying more for a pipe and tune... others, like low rpm vibes, that can't.
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