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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 01:36 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by CSV4 View Post
https://www.motorcycle.com/manufactu...irst-ride.html

quite a few complaints, some that can be remedied by paying more for a pipe and tune... others, like low rpm vibes, that can't.
I think all the other reviews I've seen have been at non-US tracks and presumably on non-US models. FWIW, Nate Kern said the only limitation was the exhaust. I'm sure someone will crack the ECU programming (if it hasn't been done already) and see if the European tune is different.

I bought the Akrapovic race kit for my V4S before it was delivered and my bike has plenty of vibrations, so hopefully I'll get to compare the two soon.

San
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 02:08 PM   #82
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Shame RRs are so boring to ride.
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 02:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
I bought the Akrapovic race kit for my V4S before it was delivered and my bike has plenty of vibrations, so hopefully I'll get to compare the two soon.

San
The vibes are no worse on my 2020 S1000RR than my V4S, or in fact my other two Ducati's. Honestly "vibes" is a "feels" thing (just like saying it's boring or it has no soul...feels) and is a reference to what you are used to...

I just got the race filter and full ti akra on mine and it's pretty ballsy, neither fix the flat spot (which is real) but there's someone who's already cracked it on the bmw forums.
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 03:21 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by panis View Post
The vibes are no worse on my 2020 S1000RR than my V4S, or in fact my other two Ducati's. Honestly "vibes" is a "feels" thing (just like saying it's boring or it has no soul...feels) and is a reference to what you are used to...

I just got the race filter and full ti akra on mine and it's pretty ballsy, neither fix the flat spot (which is real) but there's someone who's already cracked it on the bmw forums.
Do you have a tune? Hoping to get mine soon. Where did you get the exhaust? Is your dealership standing behind the warranty with the mods? Appreciate the feedback.

San
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 08:48 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
First of all I have a V4S, so it's not like I don't like the Ducati. As far as that video, which I watched yesterday morning, I do have a few thoughts.

Regarding the Black and White bikes dyno of the new BMW S1000RR. They clearly state in the video they don't have experience with the BMWs. They also state it was hard for them to get a new one. I don't know why they'd have anything to gain with fudging the numbers, as it doesn't sound like they carry BMW bikes.

With regards to 650ib, he has sponsors and if you think he isn't influenced by them, you clearly haven't seen enough of his videos. The MotoMillion key fobs and hawking the ISSE drinks should be obvious. He's all about racing from a roll on the highway, which is irresponsible to say the least. He also modifies whatever he owns seemingly without any break in period. That said, here are my thoughts on the video, which I coincidentally watched yesterday before I posted.

First, all of the bikes tested had pipes and/or tunes and whatever else done to them, and with no rhyme or reason. I would have preferred to see baseline dyno runs of all the bikes, as the modifications made may have actually hurt the performance of the bikes. I'm addressing the bikes in order of horsepower, from the highest down.

The V4R makes the most power, but even they say that it doesn't really come alive until 12K rpms. It obviously has the race exhuast, a factory tune for the exhaust and aftermarket carbon rims.It also looks to have aftermarket sprockets, so no telling how the gearing affected the dyno results. Far from stock, yet it really didn't make that much more power. As outfitted, it is easily twice the price of any other bike in this 'competition'. Even with the lighter exhaust, wheels etc., it was still a pound heavier than the BMW. As mentioned in the video, there is more power to be made as the current tune is rich. Weight was 423 pounds.

The Aprillia is next. I think most of us have already seen the dyno comparison between it and the V4 (not V4R) and it clearly makes more power. This bike was tuned, and still within 4HP of the V4R and the BMW, despite the 100cc and tune advantage. The Aprilia was the heaviest bike here at 446 pounds.

The BMW is next. It has an exhuast, but doesn't look like a tune to go with it, given how lean it is in the midrange and rich in the higher rpms. It is bested only by the Aprillia, which has a 100cc advantage, and the V4R, which is akin to bringing a gun to a knife fight. As new as it is, I doubt it's long before it makes substantially more power. Like the V4R, there is more power to be made with a tune as this bike was running very rich up top. Weight was 422 pounds.

Next is the ZX10-RR. There are some engine and aero advantages the RR has over the R, at a much higher price. But this RR is stretched, probably geared as well, and no telling what else. The Kawasakis have always been known to have strong motors, especially up top, but it just goes to show how competitive the bike market is today. This was the lightest bike at 411 pounds.

Next up is a ZX10-R, at 1HP less than the RR, which shows that the RR probably has modifications that have taken away from the stock power it once had. Weight was 444 pounds, second heaviest.

Last was the R1M. Despite an exhuast, tune by the shop hosting the dyno and carbon rims, it was the least strong here. It was the second lightest bike here.

So, if money is no object the V4R is tough to beat for both power and weight. The Aprilia makes good power, but is heavy. The BMW is tough to beat for the money, making the second best numbers for true liter bikes, and being very light. The ZX10-RR is so modified it will only do one thing well, go fast in a straight line. The ZX10-R makes good power for the money but is heavy. The R1M comes in last for power, despite extensive modifications, and bang for buck isn't there given the competition. It is light, but without a serious refresh, isn't a bike I'd consider right now, and I own one.

Flame suit on. Fire at will.

San
I appreciate the thorough opinion/reply. You're right, he is sponsored my mistake. What i meant by it was not sponsored by any bike manufacturer to push their product, as he has all of the latest models and street races them all which i doubt any manafacturer would want to be attached to.

He usually gets the bikes broken in on the dyno, well that was the case when he used to go to brocks... Maybe not now...

He did do a video of them standard which another user has just posted.

No need for the flame suit, you havent stated anything ridiculous lol.
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 09:28 PM   #86
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This is a much more representative Dyno test as:
v4r - s1000rr(2020) - rf1100 factory - zx10rr - r1m
With the race kit the v4r is 200rwhp, on this vid says with a little fueling correction it’s got another 5-6hp in it. You shouldn’t run the r without the race kit!
With stock gearing its geared to 206mph @16.5k in top which it hits very easily!

Last edited by chillo; Jun 23rd 2019 at 09:42 PM. Reason: .
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Old Jun 23rd 2019, 10:21 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
I appreciate the thorough opinion/reply. You're right, he is sponsored my mistake. What i meant by it was not sponsored by any bike manufacturer to push their product, as he has all of the latest models and street races them all which i doubt any manafacturer would want to be attached to.

He usually gets the bikes broken in on the dyno, well that was the case when he used to go to brocks... Maybe not now...

He did do a video of them standard which another user has just posted.

No need for the flame suit, you havent stated anything ridiculous lol.
I appreciate a reasonable discussion of relevant motorcycles.

The stock bike comparison linked above (V4R, S1000RR M model and RSV4 1100 Factory) IMHO is more relevant than the 6-bike dyno comparison (too many variables (exhaust, tune, wheels, drivetrain etc.)).

The BMW barely edges out the Aprilia, but the Aprilia has a 100cc advantage. That the BMW is 8hp over the V4R is significant, but the V4R tested is brand new, so it will gain hp depending on who breaks it in.

The BMW is the lightest, makes more horsepower and is the least expensive bike in the 3-bike comparison.

I own a 2018 V4S, a 2017 R1M and a 2016 S1000RR. I bought my Ducati V4S based on the phenomenal reviews. It hasn't dissapointed me.

The new S1000RR is impressive. There really isn't anything available that matches the horsepower, light weight, and bang for buck.

The V4R is nearly as light, but down on horsepower (-8hp for now versus the BMW), seems to make significant horsepower in the higher rpms and is nearly twice the price of the others.

The Aprilia is relatively heavy (+20lbs over the V4R and +21lbs over the BMW), and an aftermarket tune and exhaust only picked up a few horsepower (4) and shed 11 lbs of weight.

The BMW is very new, and will no doubt shed a considerable amount of weight and gain significant horsepower with a new exhaust and/or tune.

San
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Old Jun 24th 2019, 12:56 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by chillo View Post


This is a much more representative Dyno test as:
v4r - s1000rr(2020) - rf1100 factory - zx10rr - r1m
With the race kit the v4r is 200rwhp, on this vid says with a little fueling correction it’s got another 5-6hp in it. You shouldn’t run the r without the race kit!
With stock gearing its geared to 206mph @16.5k in top which it hits very easily!
You obviously haven't read this thread, as the video you're referrencing and others in this thread have been discussed. I'll repost my previous comments (in red).

This is in referrence to the video you've linked to. IMHO it isn't more representative as the modifications aren't listed, so there's no telling what was positive/negative, nor any indication of the cost of modifications.

First of all I have a V4S, so it's not like I don't like the Ducati. As far as that video, which I watched yesterday morning, I do have a few thoughts.

Regarding the Black and White bikes dyno of the new BMW S1000RR. They clearly state in the video they don't have experience with the BMWs. They also state it was hard for them to get a new one. I don't know why they'd have anything to gain with fudging the numbers, as it doesn't sound like they carry BMW bikes.

With regards to 650ib, he has sponsors and if you think he isn't influenced by them, you clearly haven't seen enough of his videos. The MotoMillion key fobs and hawking the ISSE drinks should be obvious. He's all about racing from a roll on the highway, which is irresponsible to say the least. He also modifies whatever he owns seemingly without any break in period. That said, here are my thoughts on the video, which I coincidentally watched yesterday before I posted.

First, all of the bikes tested had pipes and/or tunes and whatever else done to them, and with no rhyme or reason. I would have preferred to see baseline dyno runs of all the bikes, as the modifications made may have actually hurt the performance of the bikes. I'm addressing the bikes in order of horsepower, from the highest down.

The V4R makes the most power, but even they say that it doesn't really come alive until 12K rpms. It obviously has the race exhuast, a factory tune for the exhaust and aftermarket carbon rims.It also looks to have aftermarket sprockets, so no telling how the gearing affected the dyno results. Far from stock, yet it really didn't make that much more power. As outfitted, it is easily twice the price of any other bike in this 'competition'. Even with the lighter exhaust, wheels etc., it was still a pound heavier than the BMW. As mentioned in the video, there is more power to be made as the current tune is rich. Weight was 423 pounds.

The Aprillia is next. I think most of us have already seen the dyno comparison between it and the V4 (not V4R) and it clearly makes more power. This bike was tuned, and still within 4HP of the V4R and the BMW, despite the 100cc and tune advantage. The Aprilia was the heaviest bike here at 446 pounds.

The BMW is next. It has an exhuast, but doesn't look like a tune to go with it, given how lean it is in the midrange and rich in the higher rpms. It is bested only by the Aprillia, which has a 100cc advantage, and the V4R, which is akin to bringing a gun to a knife fight. As new as it is, I doubt it's long before it makes substantially more power. Like the V4R, there is more power to be made with a tune as this bike was running very rich up top. Weight was 422 pounds.

Next is the ZX10-RR. There are some engine and aero advantages the RR has over the R, at a much higher price. But this RR is stretched, probably geared as well, and no telling what else. The Kawasakis have always been known to have strong motors, especially up top, but it just goes to show how competitive the bike market is today. This was the lightest bike at 411 pounds.

Next up is a ZX10-R, at 1HP less than the RR, which shows that the RR probably has modifications that have taken away from the stock power it once had. Weight was 444 pounds, second heaviest.

Last was the R1M. Despite an exhuast, tune by the shop hosting the dyno and carbon rims, it was the least strong here. It was the second lightest bike here.

So, if money is no object the V4R is tough to beat for both power and weight. The Aprilia makes good power, but is heavy. The BMW is tough to beat for the money, making the second best numbers for true liter bikes, and being very light. The ZX10-RR is so modified it will only do one thing well, go fast in a straight line. The ZX10-R makes good power for the money but is heavy. The R1M comes in last for power, despite extensive modifications, and bang for buck isn't there given the competition. It is light, but without a serious refresh, isn't a bike I'd consider right now, and I own one.


This is my response to a post and video of the top three before modifications.

Originally Posted by PanigaleV4S View Post
650ib did do a dyno test of all 3 bikes in stock form.

Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
Thanks. I hadn't seen that one and is far more relevant, at least to me.

This shows that the Black and White Motorcycles dyno video I linked to above was in fact accurate as they showed the BMW to have about 6hp more than the V4 (not the V4S). This video shows the BMW a full 8hp above the V4R. In defense of the V4R, it was brand new, with no break-in miles. The Aprilia was only .5hp less than the BMW, despite the 100cc advantage. Again, it just shows how competitive the motorcycle brands are.

The BMW was the lightest, by only 1 pound over the V4R, with the Aprilia 20 pounds heavier than the V4R.

In stock form, the BMW S1000RR with the M option is the least expensive, the lightest, and boasts the most horsepower of the three. ln defense of the Aprilia, it has the largest tank.

It seemed like the BMW also reached it's redline more quickly than the others. Hard to say if that was because of rider input, gearing or maybe BMW's ShiftCam?
I would rather see the baseline numbers, as that is what the average Joe can expect from the factory. It also isn't dependent on how much one can spend to extract more performance. Stock versus modded, although as I said before, no idea what modifications were made and what they cost.

V4R Stock 183.81hp 437 lbs Modded 199.86hp 423 lbs

RSV4 1100 Factory Stock 191.55hp 457 lbs Modded 195.8hp 446 lbs

S1000RR Stock 191.92hp 436 lbs Modded (?) 191.55 422 lbs

The S1000RR was making less horsepower after it was modified. It's very new so I suspect that will change soon. As delivered (stock) it was the lightest bike of the top three, made the most horsepower and was the least expensive, despite carbon fiber wheels and other M option features.

San
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Old Jun 24th 2019, 01:04 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Paul G View Post
Good personal opinion by Mike, but he said the relevant point "buy the one you like the look off"

Its always been this way, 99% of the time its chocolate or vanilla choosing bikes. My criteria, a bike must look good, sound good and get your juices flowing- Ducati everytime!
Exactly my stance also on the matter. Looks are critical since most of us will rarely ride those bikes to their limits in top speed, or street races etc, and probably never ride them at their limits on tracks.

Start with the looks. Then the sound. Then the overall character. All else is truly secondary.

Originally Posted by gnance View Post
Is it just me or does anyone else kind of think the old s1000rr with the asymmetry was better looking than the new bike? Controversial to many, but I kind of liked it and it gave it character. The new BMW looks like any ol Japanese bike now. Great engine for sure great bang for the buck but aesthetically uninspired and kind of cheap looking.

Honestly the hp4 is beautiful
My thoughts so too. They established their symbol for like a decade now, to throw it all away and make it look kawasaki like or close to it.

Originally Posted by 1299rFE View Post
Buy the bike you want - i did, twice. 1299rFE and 1199r.
Who cares what bike you get - its your bike, correct? (or the banks until you pay it off)
That BMW is really , really impressive.
I love my big thumping L2's. I bought a 40k L2 FeFe - that the V4R would and will beat around the track, along with the other bikes. In reality, i wouldn't ride the other bikes any faster than i would the others. Let's be honest maybe a handful of people really can. You try to reach the limits and capabilities of these bikes you have to be pro caliper.
Buy the bike you want at the end of the day numbers are just numbers. I run on the track with 15-16 year olds that will eat me alive on their ninja 400's and motards (two of which are moto-america Jr riders). So, until you can ride beyond the capabilities of these machines the all out numbers and functions these bikes produce are negligent.
Do you still own that 1199R? I'm eyeing one tbh! That's a nice piece of history and a handful of a bike.

Originally Posted by PanigaleV4S View Post
650ib did do a dyno test of all 3 bikes in stock form.

I've got a question: Why did it measure the pull from the BMW in 4th and on the Ducati in 5th?
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Old Jun 24th 2019, 01:12 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by AndreiD View Post

I've got a question: Why did it measure the pull from the BMW in 4th and on the Ducati in 5th?
They were all supposed to be in 5th gear for the pull. Nice catch.

San
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