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Old Jan 11th 2014, 06:14 AM   #61
Stw
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Originally Posted by Thamer View Post
My .02 cents......

Everyone racing this bike has gone to a heavier spring, which seems counter intuative, but the shock mount being linear in nature I think makes sense.

To Stw, not to call you out, but I spent two days with Dave Moss and he said the stock Ohlins was good enough to get a rider within 4 seconds of the lap record. To get any closer required re-valving. He did say the after market Ohlins was a bit better than the OEM stuff, but that's primarily because it's made to order, with higher spec internals.

I suspect the going from F to P for road riders without refitting the spring is the way to go.

Anyone that has driven exotic sport cars will tell you they're awesome, but ride like shit at slow speeds and becomes sublime at race pace.

Not a problem... Just my opinion.... Dave Moss knows way more about suspension than I ever will...
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Old Jan 11th 2014, 08:53 AM   #62
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I Ride: 13, white 1199 S, 10 Husaberg 450FE
Originally Posted by Thamer View Post
My .02 cents......

Everyone racing this bike has gone to a heavier spring,.

Isnt that to stop the funky pump in the rear coming out of corners some people complain about?
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Old Jan 11th 2014, 09:13 AM   #63
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I Ride: Ducati Panigale 1199 S...
I had a friend with his Ohlin's set up for his weight on his Troy Bayliss 1098R and I was amazed at how nice and compliant the bike rode with no loss to maneuverability on the street.

I gotta say, I REALLY REALLY want to have someone set up my suspension on my 1199S in a similar fashion. I'm 190-195lbs and based what I've read, the rear spring was meant for my weight so it's just a matter of finding someone that know's what they're doing to help set it up for me...

THANKS for all the info on here guys
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Old Jan 11th 2014, 09:34 AM   #64
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I Ride: 13, white 1199 S, 10 Husaberg 450FE
Originally Posted by Mitchlguzin View Post
I had a friend with his Ohlin's set up for his weight on his Troy Bayliss 1098R and I was amazed at how nice and compliant the bike rode with no loss to maneuverability on the street.

I gotta say, I REALLY REALLY want to have someone set up my suspension on my 1199S in a similar fashion. I'm 190-195lbs and based what I've read, the rear spring was meant for my weight so it's just a matter of finding someone that know's what they're doing to help set it up for me...

THANKS for all the info on here guys
Take it in and get sag set if you cant do it yourself.

Setting sag and correct tire pressure should be done the day you buy your bike, and make the most important corrections to a bike that can be done.
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Old Jan 12th 2014, 11:37 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 996racer View Post
Im 250lbs without gear, stock spring is too soft...any thoughts on how much higher I should go? I am pretty agressive and ride mostly town to twisties. Thanks in advance for any help!
242lbs without gear...105N/mm spring is right for me (TTX MKII).

Rear Sag 29mm

Still need to upgrade the front with 11.0N/mm (30mm NIX)

Last edited by Zoenala; Jan 12th 2014 at 11:44 PM.
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Old Jan 30th 2014, 02:04 PM   #66
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Ducati 1199R

When I lift the front wheel off the ground the gap between the top of the fork footing and the bottom of the wiper seal measures 112.25 mm. (Which is curious because Ducatis web sit quotes 120mm of travel so either these forks have a long/strong top out spring or the Ducati web sit is wrong or I can't use verniers!)

It is unlikely that the wiper seal will touch the top of the fork legs when these forks are fully compressed, so measuring the height of a cable tie above the top of the for foot does not tell you how much suspension travel you have left.

For comparative interest sake here are the figures I measured.

There is value in measuring both rider sag (static sag) and the resultant riderless sag (free sag). By comparing rider sag with riderless sag you can get an idea if you have the right rate spring (more accurate for shock spring than front springs). You need to be careful when comparing rider sag to riderless sag on TTX shock on Panigale as it has a fairly long/strong internal top out spring.

Good information on RaceTechs site for using this method to work out correct rear spring for your weight.

Rider 80kg (without gear)

Front
Rider sag 29.25
Riderless sag (free sag) 24.75

Rear
Rider sag 30.17mm
Riderless sag (free sag) 15 mm ( apparently these shocks have an aggressive top out spring)

This rider needs a softer rear spring.
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Old Jan 31st 2014, 04:56 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Stw View Post
Controversially I am of the opinion that the stock suspension is pretty much garbage...this is why I bought the base..with the intention of throwing out the cheaper junk..rather than the more expensive junk... Just my opinion..of course
anyone thought of replacing the stock with the SHOWA stuff from the 899?
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Old Jan 31st 2014, 04:59 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by 996racer View Post
Agreed, however unless you are building a flat out no-street race machine, Ohlins cant be beat on the street.

That said, I have not ridden any of the new semi-auto systems like Skyjacker or BMW's. They sound promising for street use!
i d swap that... i think for the track, ohlins are hard to beat.. you can count the none Ohlins in the top pitlanes on 1 hand...

but for the road, i think SHOWA has quit something to offer...

in racing, it s more access to the right guys that makes the dif... an available KTECH tech is way better than a nonaccesible Ohlins guru...
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Old Jan 31st 2014, 07:08 AM   #69
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How i screwed up and went into the setup-deep. 
I already talked about this in a different thread but the more I think of it, the clearer it all becomes and I now think it is a good op for everyone to learn. From the NOT HOW TO DO IT –pov…
So learn from the mistakes I made. 
What I had on:


Front FGR100 with 10.0 springs and 180 mm oillevel and 8mm preload. Comp 20clicks REB 16clicks
Rear : Stock TTX with 90 spring - Linkage on F
Stock geometry

The bike went well. First ever outing on SPA and the bike I did 2:52 - buddies checked this time a dozen times to make sure there was no mistake. Same results in Donington and Brands.

Then the setup was changed.

Front 9.50 one side + 10 other side = 9,75 average... rebound was set to one side 16 – other side 0 (!) but then I hear : oil level dropped from 220 to 180…
Rear – DES dumped nothing done to spring but linkage from F to P .. with the idea to have this as an alternative to a heavier spring. No news on Comp and Reb nor preload.

I trust the guy as he had done a good job on the 999R…

Took her out to Zolder and noticed that the planted feel was gone. That she got twitchy while flicking from side to side , stuttering under braking and pumping at the rear..
however, I did a 1:50 the first time after 17 years on that rack. So I presumed It was me having to learn to ride the thing.
What did not get noticed was an abrupt stepping out at the rear that I blamed on a wrong DTC …

All the things I didn’t do:

Measure the setup as was stock
Measure the setup as was after build
Measure the setup after adjustment…
Check the settings ( clicks and preload)

As I read it now, it’s almost shameful. 

Then came the trip to SPA… I had lost 3 seconds and couldn’t come near the 2:52 I hit the first time..
after a buddy passed by, I decided it was all in mind and stepped it up… tried to follow the guy for a while but lost him under braking and he’s loads better , especially in traffic… still id stepped it up only to hit a curb in Combes 2 and the front let go. I remember I couldn’t believe it.. off it went , gentle slide in the kitty litter. Gone were my gravel-virgin days..

Got nice pictures from it putting me on the curb with loads of lean. It’s the body positioning and lean, stupid!

What I didn’t do : link the uneasy feelings about the changes to the slide… and repeated all mistakes above. ..

In Le Mans, put the bike back on F which improved things but did not pay dividends as I was still picking up confidence slowly…
We then ran the rest of the season like this and it wasn’t till Mugello where the pace was pritty high and there are some fast chicanes that I got the confirmation that the bike tended to run wide on exit so I couldn’t get on the gas quickly and other bikes ran away…

By then all this was even more confused by the fact that the engine came loose.. grr..

All along that part of the season we accumulated mistakes and wandered off into the setup-deep.
We started trying to adjust things by lowering preload . then we found that the rebound was only 16 on one side and 0 on the other … so instead of adjusting to 16/16 we averaged to 8/8… we measured compression to sit at 16/16.

Another thing we then discovered : An aftermarket TTX comes with e 95 spring and is setup to be shorter, lowering the bike over the stock DES - TTX

It took till the project brief with Steve Moore on the setup part that the first of the fundamental mistakes became clear to me. P will indeed become firmer but only 45-55% of travel… And : it starts off way and way lower... wow… now I understand that Luc’s remarks ( “you lean back when you get on the bike”) came from.
We discussed setup at different tracks to find something comparable to Spa. And it was decided that that would be Donington as it combines some fast Craner curves, a not too smooth surface and some firm braking points. It was decided that the bike would be set up to suit this track. In general Steve calculated later that going to 10 at the front with 220MM oillevel and 4MM preload would be a good setup. At the back : a 100 spring was the option.

But the worst was still to come. When opening the forks for their maintenance and spring change, it was noticed that the oillevels were different in each side. 148/155mm.. this without the springs in.

Now, I was told by the Belgian guy that the oil ‘was reduced to 180MM’ . the only way that both could have been correct was when the 180MM was with the springs in and the 148/155 with the springs out.
So a must-ask question when talking oil level in the forks is : “with or without springs” .. another thing learned..
But then Steves 220mm and the other guys 220 mm were 30MM apart as well… so confusion reigned..
The verdict came swift. “this is the weirdest setup I’ve ever seen”. Coming from the guy that mingles progressive, fixed and regressive linkages and swaps specifically valved and sprung shocks at each track on SB level, that took away the confusion. We were well up shit creek.

And only had us to blame for :

Measure the setup as was stock
Measure the setup as was after build
Measure the setup after adjustment…
Check the settings ( clicks and preload)

So in the end this was the bike I got:

Front: heavy diving and bottoming under braking, only not to have any suspending capability mid corner. Perhaps mistakenly I now blame two weird stoppies I had when just slightly squeezing that brake to this. Instant dive , no damping left and a sticky tire and off comes the rear wheel..

Rear: until getting on the gas and extending the shock it’s a rocking chair. With not enough spring strength to keep the bike from leaning back when coming of the brakes.
So first you lean over to the front and then when letting go of the brakes, the forks don’t keep you ( rebound from the dive no rebound damping in general ) back and neither does the shock… that then lightens the front keeping less pressure on the front tire.. that then runs wide ..

This was even aggravated as the engine was hanging loose in the frame giving a sort of flexible geometry and wheelbase…

Glad i'm out of that hole now with a good base to start from... 
Thanks from Montfort

Last edited by kope999R; Jan 31st 2014 at 09:28 AM.
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Old Feb 1st 2014, 12:59 AM   #70
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I don't get why on the 1199 everyone is saying the progressive rate link setting is the way to go, while on the 1098 everyone was switching to flat links.
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