Go Back   Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Mechanical and Technical

Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions


Thanks Tree27Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 17th 2014, 10:38 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
bwaide's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Navarre, Fl

Posts: 380
Thanks: 83

I Ride: '12 1199 Panigale ABS
What level DTC are you running?
bwaide is offline  
 
Old May 17th 2014, 10:55 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Prince Albert's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 2,158
Thanks: 1511

I Ride: 2013 1199S Tricolore, 2005 999S Track Bike
Originally Posted by WAfatboy View Post
I finally worked out it EBC that was causing the problem. Switched it off completely (instead of playing 1-3) an the throttle feels much more direct and doesn't surge at inappropriate times.
Wait doesn't EBC set to "off" give the maximum engine braking with increased numbers gradually letting off on Engine Braking
Prince Albert is offline  
Old May 17th 2014, 06:04 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
WAfatboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Perth, Western Australia

Posts: 1,293
Thanks: 534

I Ride: Ducati 1199S, BMW HP4
Originally Posted by Prince Albert View Post
Wait doesn't EBC set to "off" give the maximum engine braking with increased numbers gradually letting off on Engine Braking
Yes. Its a system that artificially changes the engine RPM, in the words of Ducati...

"?...The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle "

This is why I thought I turn it off and see whether it made any difference...I figured if there's a system that can trigger increases in rpm it might be related

I re-read a few reviews of the system and this journo described the effect

"...what I don't like about it is that when you go from a trailing front brake into corners, then letting off the brake completely, the EBC, still working, gives the bike a tiny shove but enough to make you feel like you're understeering"

I get this feeling when I back off the throttle in normal riding, when the slipper clutch and rear wheel are not being troubled, when I slight back off the throttle (even neutral throttle)

I also noticed that when I pull in the clutch rolling to stop at lights the engine revs blip slightly, and this seems to be connected to the clutch somehow (won't do it at rest in neutral or gear in the garage, I just tried to replicate it).

So given that EBC is an electronic system connected to the throttle I figure turning it off would at least rule it out of the equation, and when I did I immediately felt a difference.

Turning off EBC made the throttle action more direct and stopped the surging and on the road I don't mind not having EBC.

However given I'd like to take the bike back to the track someday I'm going to see if I can find a solution working with my local tech. I want to rule out physical/electric issues around the clutch switch and then we'll have a look at the tune and see if we can do anything there.
Thanks from Prince Albert
WAfatboy is offline  
Old May 18th 2014, 03:11 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
bradp51's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Posts: 2,770
Thanks: 1277

I Ride: 2012 1199S - 2006 Husaberg 450E BMW K1300S 1978 Ducati 900SSD
Originally Posted by WAfatboy View Post
I finally worked out it EBC that was causing the problem. Switched it off completely (instead of playing 1-3) an the throttle feels much more direct and doesn't surge at inappropriate times.
So fuck all to do with algorithms or wrist position.

Glad you found what was going wrong......but for fucks sake I read some shit sprouted in this thread. Just when I thought he could not get any worse.
bradp51 is offline  
Old May 18th 2014, 04:07 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
WAfatboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Perth, Western Australia

Posts: 1,293
Thanks: 534

I Ride: Ducati 1199S, BMW HP4
Originally Posted by bradp51 View Post
So fuck all to do with algorithms or wrist position.

Glad you found what was going wrong......but for fucks sake I read some shit sprouted in this thread. Just when I thought he could not get any worse.
Yes it's bloody marvellous to actually find something very specific that you can turn on and off to troubleshoot a problem. Can't believe I never tried turning it off before. Who knows what the actual problem is though but it definitely isn't wrist position I reckons its a fault but need to troubleshoot some more.
WAfatboy is offline  
Old May 18th 2014, 05:50 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
bwaide's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Navarre, Fl

Posts: 380
Thanks: 83

I Ride: '12 1199 Panigale ABS
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
Attached Thumbnails
Throttle modulation-dtc-lean.jpg   Throttle modulation-dtc-straight.jpg  

Last edited by bwaide; May 18th 2014 at 06:18 AM.
bwaide is offline  
Old May 18th 2014, 06:02 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
WAfatboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Perth, Western Australia

Posts: 1,293
Thanks: 534

I Ride: Ducati 1199S, BMW HP4
Originally Posted by bwaide View Post
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
Sorry I meant to answer that, I've had it running at various levels of DTC 2-5 but it's not that in my case, at least not directly. I haven't got the answer yet, and it'll probably turn out to be something simple but the EBC thing was a helpful find.
WAfatboy is offline  
Old May 22nd 2014, 12:37 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Brisbane, Australia

Posts: 1,377
Thanks: 394

I Ride: Ducati 2010 SFS, Ducati 2012 1199 S
Originally Posted by WAfatboy View Post
Yes. Its a system that artificially changes the engine RPM, in the words of Ducati...

"?...The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle "

This is why I thought I turn it off and see whether it made any difference...I figured if there's a system that can trigger increases in rpm it might be related

I re-read a few reviews of the system and this journo described the effect

"...what I don't like about it is that when you go from a trailing front brake into corners, then letting off the brake completely, the EBC, still working, gives the bike a tiny shove but enough to make you feel like you're understeering"

I get this feeling when I back off the throttle in normal riding, when the slipper clutch and rear wheel are not being troubled, when I slight back off the throttle (even neutral throttle)

I also noticed that when I pull in the clutch rolling to stop at lights the engine revs blip slightly, and this seems to be connected to the clutch somehow (won't do it at rest in neutral or gear in the garage, I just tried to replicate it).

So given that EBC is an electronic system connected to the throttle I figure turning it off would at least rule it out of the equation, and when I did I immediately felt a difference.

Turning off EBC made the throttle action more direct and stopped the surging and on the road I don't mind not having EBC.

However given I'd like to take the bike back to the track someday I'm going to see if I can find a solution working with my local tech. I want to rule out physical/electric issues around the clutch switch and then we'll have a look at the tune and see if we can do anything there.

Having read your solution to the problem, I've been riding with the EBC switched to "off" over the last couple of days.

I think the situation is a good deal better with it switched off
There's a lot less going on with the throttle bodies, and simplifies the engine braking component of the equation.

I had one instance of a very loud After-fire early on after switching the EBC off.
It was similar to when up shifting when using the quickshifter.
After that, it has been fine ever since
Thanks from Prince Albert
Brad is offline  
Old May 22nd 2014, 12:44 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Brisbane, Australia

Posts: 1,377
Thanks: 394

I Ride: Ducati 2010 SFS, Ducati 2012 1199 S
Originally Posted by bwaide View Post
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
Do you think the EBC is contributing to the problem?

I wonder how to get the best out of the bike when utilizing the EBC
DUCATI have add it as a feature of the model, but what's it actually designed to do

How can one benefit the most from it?
Brad is offline  
Old May 22nd 2014, 03:24 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
WAfatboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Perth, Western Australia

Posts: 1,293
Thanks: 534

I Ride: Ducati 1199S, BMW HP4
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Having read your solution to the problem, I've been riding with the EBC switched to "off" over the last couple of days.

I think the situation is a good deal better with it switched off
There's a lot less going on with the throttle bodies, and simplifies the engine braking component of the equation.

I had one instance of a very loud After-fire early on after switching the EBC off.
It was similar to when up shifting when using the quickshifter.
After that, it has been fine ever since
Glad that it's working for you.

It's not ideal to have to turn off a feature of the bike to make it rideable but I'm hopeful we'll discover that a faulty sensor or switch connected to the EBC is the problem.

Unless you're planning to hammer down through the gears without matching the revs it shouldn't be a problem, it's really a complement to the slipper clutch and TC.
WAfatboy is offline  
Reply

  Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Mechanical and Technical

Tags
modulation, throttle



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quick action throttle? Thamer Ducati 1199 40 Oct 25th 2014 10:38 AM
uneven maintenance throttle noamkrief Ducati 1199 46 Aug 25th 2014 09:12 AM
Throttle free play Fubby Mechanical and Technical 20 Mar 21st 2013 12:13 AM
smooth throttle after service duckyduc Mechanical and Technical 5 Oct 3rd 2012 08:58 AM
throttle pre-travel adjustment 14junkie Ducati 1199 9 May 27th 2012 08:45 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed