Ducati Forum

Ducati Forum (http://ducatiforum.com/ducati-forum.php)
-   Mechanical and Technical (http://ducatiforum.com/mechanical-technical/)
-   -   The Big Picture on Sprocket Changes (http://ducatiforum.com/mechanical-technical/3370-big-picture-sprocket-changes.html)

Gunny Fitz Feb 10th 2013 09:54 AM

The Big Picture on Sprocket Changes
 
1 Attachment(s)
After Ducati decided to announce performance modifications in their letter to all us 1199 owners there has been alot of talk on the subject. Since there seems to be some confusion on the "rear sprocket" portion topic brought up within several threads I thought it would be best to create another area to discuss this. Their offer of a discounted 41 tooth rear sprocket is surely a well known upgrade for those seeking more low end torque akin to the grunt most often found in all previous 1098/1198 models. About 4-5 months ago I made the decision to do this on my own since I always appreciated the V-Twin low end aspect I had on my 1198s Corse, so decided to add ONE TOOTH to my rear sprocket with a high quality piece made by Driven, and several other components from well known Ducati part specialists whom we all know off this site. Below was my addition to this thread on the question of the entire rear sprocket issue.

Alternate Rear Sprocket Setup

This is what I decided to run with about 4 months ago. As seen in my other posts, just by going up by ONE TOOTH requires a new chain (longer) to accommodate the larger sprocket. Anyone seeking something similar to this is encouraged to contact Bellissimoto and Motowheels and inform them that I advised you to call. I know them both well enough to perhaps land you a discount, though up to them of course.


Driven Rear Sprockets:
BellissiMoto - Driven Carriers & Sprockets

Sprocket Carrier
BellissiMoto - STM Sprockets and Carriers

Flanges, nuts, etc.
BellissiMoto - CNC Racing Drivetrain Parts, Nuts, Hubs, Flanges

DID 525 Chain:
D.I.D 525 ZVM-X Chain

[B][U]Another cool alternative rear hub & carrier:
BellissiMoto - Ducabike Drivetrain, Hub Flange

Yes this issue may be confusing at first glance, but once understood it all falls into place. Actually, most of the stuff I added is truly considered "bling" as you all know how much I love this :D

The only thing truly required is a larger rear sprocket and longer chain to accommodate its size. The longer chain allows the rear axle to slide backward which permits room for the larger sprocket to circulate without coming into contact with the swingarm (or "swinging arm" as our friends across the pond call it-lol) Adding a carrier, flange, or anything else does in fact have its benefits in many cases, but dresses up your appearance as well.

In a nutshell, the sprocket carrier allows one to change rear sprockets in a matter of minutes without having to remove the entire hub assembly. This is most advantageous for serious track riders or those racing the bike who have a chosen gearing setup for individual tracks that require more low end torque, or for those tracks which have more straights and need more top end speed. Practicing what I preach I used the "search tool" here and found another good thread here on this site which has some good info on this topic, so I wont claim to have found these links on my own.

Understanding Gearing - Workshop - Visordown

AMA Pro Road Racing News - Tech Tuesday: Motorcycle Final Drive Ratio

Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator

Aftermarket Sprockets Installed And Reviewed - Off The Chain - Super Streetbike Magazine

Deriven from (http://ducati1199.com/ducati-1199/74...sprockets.html)

Many of you have asked me what gains I have seen by conducting this change and what they should do about this issue. Keep in mind that this upgrade is entirely a matter of personal preference and the extent of what you do all depends on your hidden Panigale spending accounts. :eek:

Since I made these changes at the tail end of the fall I have not had the honor of wringing the bike out yet, so I cannot offer much feedback as to how well it performs. During the short rides I have done, I have noticed a very obvious torque gain (or low end grunt) which makes very low speed drivability much more user friendly. Yes, the advertised ECU upgrade / update / flash, or whatever you want to call it assists the engine in this capacity as told by the many of folks who had it done. By doing both of these mods at the exact same time I do not know exactly which one of them has made the true difference. I also have not had the space to crank it up to triple digits so do not know where it runs in RPM range after the sprocket change.

I recall several threads here about a year ago regarding members taking the route of changing their front sprockets out, which technically does the exact same thing as changing a rear sprocket. One tooth DOWN in front is generally equal to going three teeth UP in the rear. While these folks were taking this route, I decided to take the other by changing the rear - while also adding the carrier, flange, gold DID chain, and red nuts all to bring out the bling factor on my "show bike" (I believe most of you know and understand my story on why I am building more of a show bike than track bike correct?- it has to do with a large explosive device planted in the ground by an insurgency in Iraq. My racing career is pretty much over thanks to these fuckers, who no one can personally thank any longer since I put a few magazines of 556 into their heads and bodies after regaining consciousness.
(ok, enough rant on that matter) :cool:

So sorry for the extensively long thread here but I hope this clears up many of the questions on this controversial topic and assists you all in making decisions in the upcoming future. I will say this - by Ducati offering their "discounted price" on their own rear sprocket they are in fact "upselling" you on their own performance parts. Weigh the costs associated with using their stuff versus any other high quality aftermarket company and make your own calculated decision as to which route you go. One tooth, two teeth, DID chain, RK chain, carriers, hub flanges, etc etc etc is all up to only ONE PERSON in the long run!!! YOU - the proud owner of the finest street legal superbike which has revolutionized Ducati from here on out! After all, it can only get better from here !!:D


PS. Finally putting all finishing touches onto my project which I hopefully can get a professional photographer to take quality shows of come first signs of spring. Thanks to forum I have just made friends and contact with another high quality parts company for the inclusion of some Titanium bolts for yes "bling effect" on all brake components and forks. Since all known bolt companies have nothing official out yet for our bikes (Pro Bolt, LSL, etc) I am going this route.
I have spoken to owner of company in depth and agreed to R&D some pieces in exchange for helping to get the word out on these fantastic looking items. Should any of you become interested after reading their website please contact me for introduction to him!
http://www.letsgreen.tw/product.php?...+Tricolore+ABS

zvez Feb 10th 2013 10:14 AM

Some options from motowheels.

I've a feeling since dry clutches are going the way of the dinosaur, the next step is bling up the rear sprocket /wheel etc ;)

AEM 6 Hole Sprocket Hub Cover

AFAM Quick Change Lightweight Kit - 1199 Panigale

AFAM Quick Change Longevity Kit - 1199 Panigale

AFAM Quick Change Sprocket Carrier - 1199 Panigale

Gunny Fitz Feb 10th 2013 10:29 AM

Yes sir, agreed. If you are one who likes more variety Bellissimoto has more choices. I initially wanted their Ducabike contrast cut stuff and after my whole rear set debacle have obtained a hefty discount right thru Duca now on all parts. However, MW has very high quality gear whom I use quiet often. Hence their chain which got to me in like one day!

jjsC6 Feb 10th 2013 11:15 AM

I'm really surprised that going up just one tooth in back requires a new chain. That implies that the adjuster is already as tight as it can go, don't you think? What made you believe it is required? I'm not trying to doubt you btw, just trying to understand.

Trauma Feb 10th 2013 11:44 AM

Gunny you spent an awful lot on those bolts. I replaced all mine with Titanium versions, the calipers were just M10 x 60mm bolts, $30 for the 4, the rears were $9 for the 2. The rotor bolts were only $42 for the front 10.

For the sprockets (front/rear) any tooth, carrier and gold DID chain, only $300 from Kyle.

zvez Feb 10th 2013 12:10 PM

You can get away with not changing the chain as far as I know, the downside is the rear eccentric will be 180 degrees out of proper position and will alter your rear ride height.

We discovered this when my friend went to a 14t front on his mts. From memory I can't recall if 180 degrees out lowers or raises the rear end. I'm too lazy to go out to the garage and check.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsC6 (Post 52402)
I'm really surprised that going up just one tooth in back requires a new chain. That implies that the adjuster is already as tight as it can go, don't you think? What made you believe it is required? I'm not trying to doubt you btw, just trying to understand.


Gunny Fitz Feb 10th 2013 12:11 PM

bolts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trauma (Post 52408)
Gunny you spent an awful lot on those bolts. I replaced all mine with Titanium versions, the calipers were just M10 x 60mm bolts, $30 for the 4, the rears were $9 for the 2. The rotor bolts were only $42 for the front 10.

For the sprockets (front/rear) any tooth, carrier and gold DID chain, only $300 from Kyle.

I didnt spend anything on any bolts bro. Thats what the website says. I never divulge what I pay for anything and never will. Id lose trust of those I deal with. Besides, I have not purchased anything at all yet.

Gunny Fitz Feb 10th 2013 12:22 PM

Trust me.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zvez (Post 52414)
You can get away with not changing the chain as far as I know, the downside is the rear eccentric will be 180 degrees out of proper position and will alter your rear ride height.

We discovered this when my friend went to a 14t front on his mts. From memory I can't recall if 180 degrees out lowers or raises the rear end. I'm too lazy to go out to the garage and check.

Gents. I know it is required because I was right there, helping with the entire assembly when the sprocket and carrier group were all mounted on my bike at dealership. Matter of fact so was another very prominent member of this forum who was actually the first to notice the sprocket touching the fwd part of the bend in the swingarm. The axle was all the way forward and there was not enough slack in the chain to complete the assembly. Thus REQUIRING a longer chain!

I say trust me when I say this because there was no other way around this issue unless I remounted the oem 39 tooth rear sprocket. Not offended if you dont believe me. But when you purchase your 40-41 tooth rear sprocket, and quickly realize you need the longer chain, you can come back here and say I told you so.

* perhaps the very educated witness who was there that day, and who owns both a sweet ass 1098s and 1199 AND happens to be a PT tech at this performance oriented shop will chime in regarding his observations which REQUIRED a chain with more links than the standard stock chain this bike came with?

zvez Feb 10th 2013 12:50 PM

entirely possible it would have clearance issues. As swingarm is different the mts.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunny Fitz (Post 52417)
Gents. I know it is required because I was right there, helping with the entire assembly when the sprocket and carrier group were all mounted on my bike at dealership. Matter of fact so was another very prominent member of this forum who was actually the first to notice the sprocket touching the fwd part of the bend in the swingarm. The axle was all the way forward and there was not enough slack in the chain to complete the assembly. Thus REQUIRING a longer chain!

I say trust me when I say this because there was no other way around this issue unless I remounted the oem 39 tooth rear sprocket. Not offended if you dont believe me. But when you purchase your 40-41 tooth rear sprocket, and quickly realize you need the longer chain, you can come back here and say I told you so.

* perhaps the very educated witness who was there that day, and who owns both a sweet ass 1098s and 1199 AND happens to be a PT tech at this performance oriented shop will chime in regarding his observations which REQUIRED a chain with more links than the standard stock chain this bike came with?


wilkson Feb 10th 2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsC6 (Post 52402)
I'm really surprised that going up just one tooth in back requires a new chain. That implies that the adjuster is already as tight as it can go, don't you think? What made you believe it is required? I'm not trying to doubt you btw, just trying to understand.

I have gone to a 41 rear and run two different length chains . I use the standard length which runs the sprocket close to the swingarm and also use a extra link as well when I want to lengthen the swingarm .
These are using 520 set ups .


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:19 AM.


Copyright © 2011-2018 Ducati Forum. All rights reserved.