Go Back   Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Mechanical and Technical

Mechanical and Technical Mechanical and technical topics, help, and discussions


Thanks Tree15Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sep 9th 2019, 07:33 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
roadracerx's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Irvine, CA

Posts: 205
Thanks: 202

I Ride: all the bikes....
Originally Posted by cycler View Post
I switched to Metzelers because Ive always ran Metzelers...
So there is a lot to unpack here but if you like the way your friend's bike works you might want to start with a setup from a professional.

You will need many tools, stands, etc to do this work properly.

Also, with respect to tires, you get what you pay for....I understand you get a deal on the Metzelers so for sure switch to the K2s from the RRs.

The most important thing you can do is get the sag set properly then if your rebound or compression has been adjusted then go to the owner's manual and set your "clickers" back to factory settings.

What is your weight without gear?

Do you have a 1299S or base model 1299?
roadracerx is offline  
 
Old Sep 9th 2019, 10:34 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Twisted10's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2018
From: NY

Posts: 365
Thanks: 94

Originally Posted by roadracerx View Post
Brandon, this is not enough information to tell you exactly where you should be but it seems clear that your settings are not ideal. What size rear tire? When you stated you normally run 28 hot for track and 33 for street - I am not clear on what this means....are you only talking about the rear tire? Have you adjusted the suspension on your bike? If so, what was done?

200/55 rear.

28psi in both tires when they are hot on the track, 33psi for the street.

All I have done is adjust some of the electronic suspension settings.
Twisted10 is offline  
Old Sep 9th 2019, 11:29 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
roadracerx's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Irvine, CA

Posts: 205
Thanks: 202

I Ride: all the bikes....
@Twisted, ok so let's fix the tire pressure!

Without tire warmers....

32 PSI front no matter if you are riding on the street or track - pretty simple.

28 PSI rear on street

25 PSI rear on track, not to exceed 29 PSI hot off track.

If you use tire warmers then let me know...

What changes have you made to the suspension settings?

Which bike are we talking about here? The 2012 1199 Tricolor or a 1299S?!
roadracerx is offline  
Old Sep 10th 2019, 10:37 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Twisted10's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2018
From: NY

Posts: 365
Thanks: 94

Originally Posted by roadracerx View Post
@Twisted, ok so let's fix the tire pressure!

Without tire warmers....

32 PSI front no matter if you are riding on the street or track - pretty simple.

28 PSI rear on street

25 PSI rear on track, not to exceed 29 PSI hot off track.

If you use tire warmers then let me know...

What changes have you made to the suspension settings?

Which bike are we talking about here? The 2012 1199 Tricolor or a 1299S?!

2012 1199s tricolor.

no warmers.

suspension setup is as follows:

front compression 10
front rebound 10
rear compression 10
rear rebound 4

Thanks!
Twisted10 is offline  
Old Sep 10th 2019, 01:37 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
roadracerx's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Irvine, CA

Posts: 205
Thanks: 202

I Ride: all the bikes....
Originally Posted by Twisted10 View Post
2012 1199s tricolor.

no warmers.

suspension setup is as follows:

front compression 10
front rebound 10
rear compression 10
rear rebound 4

Thanks!
Try this....

DTC: 2 or 3
DWC: 2
EBC: 3
ABS: 1

(Race of track use)
Front Compression: 8
Front Rebound: 10
Rear Compression: 10
Rear Rebound: 14

Make sure you follow the tire pressure settings I recommended and I would like to know where your bike and rider sag numbers please.
Thanks from Twisted10
roadracerx is offline  
Old Sep 11th 2019, 03:12 PM   #36
Junior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2019
From: From England but now lives in Indianapolis

Posts: 26
Thanks: 7

Originally Posted by roadracerx View Post
@louis041, ok so I recommend 40 mm front and 30 mm rear rider sag. Bike sag should be about 25 mm front and 12-15 mm rear. Remember to take the average between measurements of you sitting on the bike with the suspension compressed and released slowly and suspension lifted and released slowly.

RaceTech explains this here

Your pressures are a bit off. Try the following....

Street pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front and 28 rear COLD

Track pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front COLD or 34 PSI hot off the warmer, set rear at 25 PSI COLD or 28 PSI HOT off the warmer. When you come in from your session IMMEDIATELY check the rear. It will likely be above 28, bring it back down to 28. After the next session check it again and repeat this process until the pressure does not go above 28 PSI HOT OFF THE TRACK.

Generally, most riders do not brake hard enough to generate enough tire flex to raise the pressure more than 1 PSI so you really don't need to worry about front pressure once you set it in the AM.

Here is some Pirelli info
Question for you. I've ridden most of my life, dirtbikes from the age of 7 and then streetbikes from the age of 19. About to turn 43. I was always taught that a tire with lower pressure allows more grip, so always have slightly less pressure in the front than the rear. That way the rear should slide before the front does. With all the forums I've been on, I see mixed advice whether lower in the front or the rear.

What is your reasoning for having lower in the rear than the front as you suggested above? I'm really not technical in this area but would love to know more. Likewise, I have my friends set the suspension/tires on dirtbikes when we race motocross even to this day. lol.
CWP76 is offline  
Old Sep 12th 2019, 07:55 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
roadracerx's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Irvine, CA

Posts: 205
Thanks: 202

I Ride: all the bikes....
Originally Posted by CWP76 View Post
Question for you. I've ridden most of my life, dirtbikes from the age of 7 and then streetbikes from the age of 19. About to turn 43. I was always taught that a tire with lower pressure allows more grip, so always have slightly less pressure in the front than the rear. That way the rear should slide before the front does. With all the forums I've been on, I see mixed advice whether lower in the front or the rear.

What is your reasoning for having lower in the rear than the front as you suggested above? I'm really not technical in this area but would love to know more. Likewise, I have my friends set the suspension/tires on dirtbikes when we race motocross even to this day. lol.
My reasoning is very simple, it is exactly what Dunlop and Pirelli, etc. recommend. Also, the tires will show this by way of a hot tear (under-inflation) or cold tear (over-inflation).

Here are some examples of those recommendations...

Dunlop

Pirelli

Any advice or recommendations I give here is based on science and testing; I suspect the advice you were given was from a time before tire warmers and significantly different tire technology. We are about the same age but I have never heard one should run the front at a lower pressure. While I do agree that running less pressure CAN get you more grip....when doing so on the front the tire looses its shape and makes steering feel VERY weird and with the rear you are likely to cause a tear.

With motocross I run 13 PSI on Dunlop MX32 front AND rear.
Mini-motard 21 front and 20 rear
Supermoto 28 front and 24 rear
Street bike 32 front and 28 rear

....notice the front is ALWAYS a little higher.

The rise in pressure due to use is more significant for the rear but even hot off track the rear is never higher than the front.

Has this worked for you? Maybe give my suggestions a try....you might like it?!

Racing sport bikes on race tracks since 2000 I can say the tire vendors are there to help and their advice is good. It has always worked for me. Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone and Michelin all make great tires with slightly different characteristics but a front that slides before the rear is NEVER something I want from a tire. Some people are front-end riders and some are rear. MX guys tend to be rear-end riders but I can't ride fast if I don't have confidence in the front so the shape of the tire which is determined by pressure and sidewall stiffness is vital. I am fine with the rear sliding but front end slides are hard to save and usually happen so fast there is no chance to do so, at least on the asphalt.
Thanks from The Avidmoto

Last edited by roadracerx; Sep 12th 2019 at 07:58 AM.
roadracerx is offline  
Old Sep 12th 2019, 01:19 PM   #38
Junior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2019
From: From England but now lives in Indianapolis

Posts: 26
Thanks: 7

Originally Posted by roadracerx View Post
My reasoning is very simple, it is exactly what Dunlop and Pirelli, etc. recommend. Also, the tires will show this by way of a hot tear (under-inflation) or cold tear (over-inflation).

Here are some examples of those recommendations...

Dunlop

Pirelli

Any advice or recommendations I give here is based on science and testing; I suspect the advice you were given was from a time before tire warmers and significantly different tire technology. We are about the same age but I have never heard one should run the front at a lower pressure. While I do agree that running less pressure CAN get you more grip....when doing so on the front the tire looses its shape and makes steering feel VERY weird and with the rear you are likely to cause a tear.

With motocross I run 13 PSI on Dunlop MX32 front AND rear.
Mini-motard 21 front and 20 rear
Supermoto 28 front and 24 rear
Street bike 32 front and 28 rear

....notice the front is ALWAYS a little higher.

The rise in pressure due to use is more significant for the rear but even hot off track the rear is never higher than the front.

Has this worked for you? Maybe give my suggestions a try....you might like it?!

Racing sport bikes on race tracks since 2000 I can say the tire vendors are there to help and their advice is good. It has always worked for me. Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone and Michelin all make great tires with slightly different characteristics but a front that slides before the rear is NEVER something I want from a tire. Some people are front-end riders and some are rear. MX guys tend to be rear-end riders but I can't ride fast if I don't have confidence in the front so the shape of the tire which is determined by pressure and sidewall stiffness is vital. I am fine with the rear sliding but front end slides are hard to save and usually happen so fast there is no chance to do so, at least on the asphalt.
Thanks mate. Appreciate the feedback. I'm going to try your recommended street pressures and see how she feels. I do know my dirtbike pressures always vary depending on the track we ride. One of my pals is an ex-AMA Supercross Pro, very handy to have around to aid with set up. And well, I have one of his ex-race bikes, which is nice. lol.
CWP76 is offline  
Reply

  Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Mechanical and Technical

Tags
advice, expert, free, setup, suspension



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suspension setup CrazyDuc Ducati 1199 7 Jul 13th 2017 09:06 PM
Help: Bumpy track suspension setup BTrain5489 Ducati 1199 13 Mar 12th 2016 11:51 AM
Suspension setup. Again. tjprattctr01 Ducati 1199 5 Jun 19th 2015 11:28 PM
DES Suspension setup/tips Hamish Mechanical and Technical 19 Jan 18th 2013 02:44 PM
Big Thanks to JHP - Suspension Setup Kam Ducati 1199 5 Sep 12th 2012 09:08 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed