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Old Jun 4th 2012, 09:50 AM   #1
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Engine Breaking or Trail Breaking..?

I love engine braking when riding aggressively, I feel more stable and precise with my entry speed on corners. I even prefer my traction set around 1 or 2 to allow my rear to slide while down shifting before corners..(engine braking set to off).

A little side note, yes TC intrudes not only when accelerating but while downshifting hard. If your TC is set too high your rear tire will skip enstead of sliding (backing it in)

I am kinda stuck in my ways so trail breaking is not a common habbit of mine, unless things get sticky (over cook the corner, meaning entry speed too fast)

Which do you prefer and why?

Last edited by DUCENZO; Jun 4th 2012 at 07:58 PM.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 11:30 AM   #2
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I guess this thread is too technical for you guys??

either that or i'm not very much liked
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 12:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DUCENZO View Post
I guess this thread is too technical for you guys??

either that or i'm not very much liked
Too technical? Hardly. It just seems a bit "off-center" as you have already defined the "problem", which is your riding "style". Your issue sounds like you are trying to rely on the new slipper clutch to smooth out the shock to the rear tire when "downshifting agressively" to slide the rear under full engine braking. The new wet version isn't up to the task like the dry versions.

If you insist on using pure high rpm engine braking rather than trailing the rear brake to slide the rear, then you're going to need a better slipper, OR you can turn the EBS "on" and try each of the 3 settings to which one works to stop the chatter.

Less engine braking should smooth out the chatter, but will require more front brake to hit the same stopping force.

Is the DTC light "active" during your problems? I don't see the DTC as contributing to your issue at all unless you're holding the throttle open on corner entry.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 01:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by DUCENZO View Post
I love engine breaking when riding aggressively, I feel more stable and precise with my entry speed on corners. I even prefer my traction set around 1 or 2 to allow my rear to slide while down shifting before corners..(engine breaking set to off).

A little side note, yes TC intrudes not only when accelerating but while downshifting hard. If your TC is set too high your rear tire will skip enstead of sliding (backing it in)

I am kinda stuck in my ways so trail breaking is not a common hannit of mine, unless things get sticky (over cook the corner, meaning entry speed too fast)

Which do you prefer and why?
I'm speachless, TopDuc, that was mighty nice of you, I would have said something I regreted...

Ducenzo, most if not everything you said was incorrect regaurding how the bike works and I would get out to a local track day and get some education.

Last edited by doctorj; Jun 4th 2012 at 06:02 PM.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 01:15 PM   #5
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And to answer your question, trail braking is the proper way to enter a corner fast. There are many reasons, but loading your front tire and optimising your bike geometry to allow fast turn in is a big one.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 01:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TOPDUC View Post
Too technical? Hardly. It just seems a bit "off-center" as you have already defined the "problem", which is your riding "style". Your issue sounds like you are trying to rely on the new slipper clutch to smooth out the shock to the rear tire when "downshifting agressively" to slide the rear under full engine braking. The new wet version isn't up to the task like the dry versions.

If you insist on using pure high rpm engine braking rather than trailing the rear brake to slide the rear, then you're going to need a better slipper, OR you can turn the EBS "on" and try each of the 3 settings to which one works to stop the chatter.

Less engine braking should smooth out the chatter, but will require more front brake to hit the same stopping force.

Is the DTC light "active" during your problems? I don't see the DTC as contributing to your issue at all unless you're holding the throttle open on corner entry.
HAHA that's funny. not once did I mention having a problem sir...I mearly was generating a convo about different riding style.

I explained my riding style, which gets me around very quickly .

I dont have rear tire chatter, I specifically mentioned that... EBS is not my style. And no DTC doesn't intervene during my engine breaking with the settings I mentioned, only on exiting the corner as I like I it.

appreciate your feedback tho, someone will learn someting from it.

Why not answer my question on what YOU prefer and why, as oppose to all the above?

cheers

Last edited by DUCENZO; Jun 4th 2012 at 01:29 PM.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 03:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DUCENZO View Post
I guess this thread is too technical for you guys??

either that or i'm not very much liked...

Not at all.. just trying to understand the question "Engine Breaking or Trail Breaking".. really? that's a question? I don't want to Break my engine or my trail..

I like the feeling of the engine braking of the big twin on the road, though doesn't really relate to the track as much. I like the rear to stay inline if possible, using the slipper clutch to help cope with down shifting.

Trail Braking is useful though one needs to be careful not to overload the front tire - it has a lot of work to do on corner entry as it is. I do most of my braking prior to turn in, trailing the front brake off as I lean in more till I reach my fully desired lean, at which point I'm already off the brake and back on the gas to shift some of the weight off the front tire to the rear. Rough guess is that at initial turn in I would say I'm still at ~ 80% braking effort, trailing off to ~30% after ~20deg of lean and completely off by 50deg and more.

That's what I prefer though doesn't always happen like that.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 04:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by doctorj View Post
....Topduc, most if not everything you said was incorrect regaurding how the bike works and I would get out to a local track day and get some education.
Well doc, I'm thinking you're the one who is "incorrect" at this point.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 04:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by doctorj View Post
And to answer your question, trail braking is the proper way to enter a corner fast. There are many reasons, but loading your front tire and optimising your bike geometry to allow fast turn in is a big one.
Well, we can agree on this one... for the most part. Depending on the entry speed and corner radius, a bit of rear brake can bring the rear out to assist in getting the bike turned for the drive out.
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Old Jun 4th 2012, 04:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DUCENZO View Post
...Why not answer my question on what YOU prefer and why, as oppose to all the above?...
I'll get there eventually, but your post contained a functional error on DTC and some gramatical errors (break vs brake) which kinda turned me off. Does your bike have ABS?
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