Go Back   Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Racing

Racing Racing Forum - For racing and track day topics and discussions


Thanks Tree40Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jul 7th 2013, 05:32 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
here is bayliss career in moto gp. show me where he won a championship not a race

Both Bayliss and Edwards moved to MotoGP in 2003, and it was Bayliss who was initially more successful. In Ducati's first season in the class their bike was highly competitive, with Bayliss taking three third places and finishing sixth overall in the championship. He briefly led at Philip Island, Brno and Welkom, and only narrowly losing the rookie of the year race to Nicky Hayden. Team-mate Loris Capirossi took their first win at the Circuit de Catalunya.
2004 was a difficult year for the team however, with Bayliss only 14th in the standings. Despite (or perhaps due to) its prodigious straight-line speed the bike didn't handle well, with Bayliss often over-riding and crashing frequently, this led to Bayliss' subsequent sacking from the factory Ducati squad, a part of which Bayliss had been for five years previous. This move was considered an unpopular one by many, considering that neither Bayliss nor Capirossi were able to perform as well as they had the previous year.
According to some, confirmation that Bayliss' sacking was influenced by sponsorship pressure rather than any performance based reasons was seen in the appointment of Carlos Checa as Bayliss' replacement. However, Bayliss is much older than Capirossi, and had not been as close to him in 2004 as he had in 2003, so some questioned whether he had any more to offer the team.
However, good results near the end of the season earned him a ride with Sito Pons' Camel Honda team for 2005, but was not a frontrunner, despite promising speed shown in his first tests on the 2004 machine and Alex Barros winning in Portugal. A severely broken arm meant that Bayliss was unable to compete in the final six races, had he done so, the season ending Valencian Grand Prix would have been his 50th Grand Prix appearance. Bayliss did give an insight as to his inability to crack into the upper echelons of Grand Prix racing, describing the Honda MotoGP bike and MotoGP bikes in general as too inflexible, rigid, and like a 250 for his style.
After the success of 2006 Superbike, Ducati offered Bayliss a wildcard entry in the final MotoGP race of the year in Valencia, due to Sete Gibernau being injured. Remarkably Bayliss qualified 2nd and led the whole race, which ended in a Ducati 12. His impressive victory was somewhat overshadowed by the dramatic events involving Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden that ultimately determined the 2006 title winner.
mark419ny is offline  
 
Old Jul 7th 2013, 05:35 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
Originally Posted by MacaveliMC View Post
Still not making any sense. You said u could debate Rossi's non-qualifications over the last 5 years, which includes 2 years that he won the title. You can dislike the guy all you want, but the second you say someone was not qualified during a year they won the title of the premier world motorcycle racing series you pretty much lose all credibility to have any sort of sensible, fact-based discussion.
ok can only answer so many things at one time. what do all you rossi guys call each other and say someone said something bad about rossi lets attack.

ok he won 2 titles so did JLO. JLO way more consistant over the last 5 years. for that matter so is danny and so was casey.

the reference to the 72 dolphins is just like what you guys do with rossi. 9 times world champ yes i know. just like i know back in 72 the fins went undefeated.
mark419ny is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 04:57 AM   #53
Senior Member
 
MacaveliMC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Auburn Hills, MI

Posts: 470
Thanks: 146

I Ride: Ducati 1199 S ABS & '09 Triumph Daytona 675
Originally Posted by mark419ny View Post
ok can only answer so many things at one time. what do all you rossi guys call each other and say someone said something bad about rossi lets attack.

ok he won 2 titles so did JLO. JLO way more consistant over the last 5 years. for that matter so is danny and so was casey.

the reference to the 72 dolphins is just like what you guys do with rossi. 9 times world champ yes i know. just like i know back in 72 the fins went undefeated.
Of course JLO was more consistent in the last 5 years, he has been on a half decent bike the whole time, unlike Rossi. He's also younger (yes it does make a bit of difference) as well. Like we said, there are a lot of factors that go into how well a rider does. It's not black and white, he's great or he's horrible. Sensible discussions about a rider don't include knee-jerk reactions to the masses, who in this case obviously love Rossi, for good reason looking at his record and how popular he has made the sport.

Is Rossi as good as he was when he won the title 5 times in a row? Maybe not. Is he the worst in the field? Definitely not. I think he said it best himself, how people go back and forth on him saying "oh Valentino, he's very young he's still good, and then on Valentino he's old and he's done, and then back to oh Valentino, he's still good". Personally, I take him at his word when he says he's been at a consistent level the whole time. People try to say "oh well if he's so good why couldn't he do well on the Ducati? Stoner was able to do it so Stoner must be better! Rossi is only as good as the bike under him!" which is probably one of the most retarded statements ever invented, clearly by someone who doesn't understand motorsport racing. A better, probably more accurate statement would be why was Stoner the ONLY one successful on the Ducati? Every rider is different and there's a good chance the bike just fit Casey's riding style (at least for that one year, then after that he started to suffer of course). The fact that highly talented guys like Nicky Hayden, Andrea and Spies are suffering on the Ducati is proof enough for me that it probably wasn't Rossi, it was the bike.

Then on top of that, coming back to Yamaha and getting back on the M1 (which has clearly changed, as all these bikes do every year) and somehow immediately taking 2nd in the first race of the year against the best riders in the world, most of whom have been on their current bikes for a year or two? I don't care who you are, if that's not impressive, you're blind deaf an dumb. The guy is clearly still talented, even against a talented field. He may not win the title, but he's definitely not going to be relegated to the place of a has-been like Edwards anytime soon.

So there ya go, an example of a fact-based sensible discussion on where Rossi has been and where he is today.

BTW there is a HUGE, HUGE, HUUUUUUGE difference when comparing a championship football team that probably doesn't even contain the same staff members let alone players from 40 years ago, to a single athlete who has been competing for a decade. That example holds no weight whatsoever in these discussions.
Thanks from PanigaleS, youngR and VAST
MacaveliMC is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 06:39 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
Originally Posted by MacaveliMC View Post
Of course JLO was more consistent in the last 5 years, he has been on a half decent bike the whole time, unlike Rossi. He's also younger (yes it does make a bit of difference) as well. Like we said, there are a lot of factors that go into how well a rider does. It's not black and white, he's great or he's horrible. Sensible discussions about a rider don't include knee-jerk reactions to the masses, who in this case obviously love Rossi, for good reason looking at his record and how popular he has made the sport.

Is Rossi as good as he was when he won the title 5 times in a row? Maybe not. Is he the worst in the field? Definitely not. I think he said it best himself, how people go back and forth on him saying "oh Valentino, he's very young he's still good, and then on Valentino he's old and he's done, and then back to oh Valentino, he's still good". Personally, I take him at his word when he says he's been at a consistent level the whole time. People try to say "oh well if he's so good why couldn't he do well on the Ducati? Stoner was able to do it so Stoner must be better! Rossi is only as good as the bike under him!" which is probably one of the most retarded statements ever invented, clearly by someone who doesn't understand motorsport racing. A better, probably more accurate statement would be why was Stoner the ONLY one successful on the Ducati? Every rider is different and there's a good chance the bike just fit Casey's riding style (at least for that one year, then after that he started to suffer of course). The fact that highly talented guys like Nicky Hayden, Andrea and Spies are suffering on the Ducati is proof enough for me that it probably wasn't Rossi, it was the bike.

Then on top of that, coming back to Yamaha and getting back on the M1 (which has clearly changed, as all these bikes do every year) and somehow immediately taking 2nd in the first race of the year against the best riders in the world, most of whom have been on their current bikes for a year or two? I don't care who you are, if that's not impressive, you're blind deaf an dumb. The guy is clearly still talented, even against a talented field. He may not win the title, but he's definitely not going to be relegated to the place of a has-been like Edwards anytime soon.

So there ya go, an example of a fact-based sensible discussion on where Rossi has been and where he is today.

BTW there is a HUGE, HUGE, HUUUUUUGE difference when comparing a championship football team that probably doesn't even contain the same staff members let alone players from 40 years ago, to a single athlete who has been competing for a decade. That example holds no weight whatsoever in these discussions.
more excuses he is on the same bike as JLO now and not even close to him. the only reason he isnt a has been already is a great marketing campaign, and motoGP needs him so the announcers have to talk about him constantly. he isnt doing that much better than DOVI right now and Dovi is on the ducati. oh the same ducati rossi was on for 2 years.

Im done commenting on rossi till germany. I hope the people who read my posts (dont have to agree) but know what i ment when i said stoner was the only one to win on a ducati. i wasnt talking 1 race i ment championship. I know people have won races on the Ducati.

i have also given in previous posts on what makes rossi over rated his whole career. you can find the posts if you like im not going to retype them. rossi is on the M1 now and he is barely better than dovi is. dovi is doing better on the Ducati than rossi did. whatever doesnt matter you have your opinion i have mine. just when he doesnt finish well i hope you post that too.

There are plenty of rossi fans that i talk to. thats fine. i never said he wasnt a good rider. i said he is over rated. much like Peyton manning. both will be in the hall of fame in their sport but gaudy stats dont make you the best. peyton took denver as far as tebow did last year. 1 playoff loss.

Last edited by mark419ny; Jul 8th 2013 at 06:45 AM.
mark419ny is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 06:57 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
youngR's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: USA

Posts: 2,934
Thanks: 1156

I Ride: Panigale R | MTS1000
not sure if I am reading about MotoGP or NFL anymore...why keep brining up NFL. I dont give a shit about NFL on Motorcycle forums. lol
youngR is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 07:08 AM   #56
Senior Member
 
MacaveliMC's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Auburn Hills, MI

Posts: 470
Thanks: 146

I Ride: Ducati 1199 S ABS & '09 Triumph Daytona 675
Originally Posted by mark419ny View Post
more excuses he is on the same bike as JLO now and not even close to him. the only reason he isnt a has been already is a great marketing campaign, and motoGP needs him so the announcers have to talk about him constantly. he isnt doing that much better than DOVI right now and Dovi is on the ducati. oh the same ducati rossi was on for 2 years.

Im done commenting on rossi till germany. I hope the people who read my posts (dont have to agree) but know what i ment when i said stoner was the only one to win on a ducati. i wasnt talking 1 race i ment championship. I know people have won races on the Ducati.

i have also given in previous posts on what makes rossi over rated his whole career. you can find the posts if you like im not going to retype them. rossi is on the M1 now and he is barely better than dovi is. dovi is doing better on the Ducati than rossi did. whatever doesnt matter you have your opinion i have mine. just when he doesnt finish well i hope you post that too.

There are plenty of rossi fans that i talk to. thats fine. i never said he wasnt a good rider. i said he is over rated. much like Peyton manning. both will be in the hall of fame in their sport but gaudy stats dont make you the best. peyton took denver as far as tebow did last year. 1 playoff loss.

He is definitely on a different bike than JLO, it's set up for him not JLO. Different riders have different styles and thus different bike setups and preferences. The bike doesn't remain the same week to week let alone after a couple years of developing the bike under JLO. I guarantee you'd notice a night and day difference if u jumped on both bikes for a few laps. It's not an excuse, it's a fact of life riding prototype machines.

I'd be willing to bet more people post about Rossi not doing well than any other rider. Of course it's not for the same reason you would, they're lamenting a legendary rider not doing as well as they'd hoped while you're usually boasting about how much he sucks and is done for.
MacaveliMC is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 07:14 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
i agree that they are different yet the same. if that makes sense. rossi takes the bike and tweeks it to the way he likes it. my point was that the bikes start out the same, so you cant say i got beat by a better bike a la the ducati not as good of a bike.
mark419ny is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 07:16 AM   #58
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
Originally Posted by youngR View Post
not sure if I am reading about MotoGP or NFL anymore...why keep brining up NFL. I dont give a shit about NFL on Motorcycle forums. lol
it was to make a point. ever talk to a dolphin fan? they still say 72 fins best ever much like rossi fans.
does anybody read between the lines on this forum? much like when i say stoner was the only to win on a ducati. is it true that other riders have one a race on the ducati yes but only stoner won a world title.
mark419ny is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 07:17 AM   #59
Senior Member
 
mark419ny's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
From: South Florida

Posts: 5,500
Thanks: 2012

I Ride: 2015 R1 2014 HP4 2019 Vespa GTS Sold 2012 1199 S 2007 zx10r and zx6r
till the next moto gp race im done on this thread enjoy the week.
mark419ny is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2013, 07:23 AM   #60
Senior Member
 
VAST's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
From: Manhattan

Posts: 1,983
Thanks: 803

I Ride: 2014 Panigale R (sold)
rossi is one of the greatest of ALL TIME in all motor sports. his record is legendary. stop with the bashing. he CAN'T be OVERRATED in terms of his STATS.

this thread went dumb as soon as rossi was denigrated.
Thanks from PanigaleS and Capt CF
VAST is offline  
Reply

  Ducati Forum > Ducati Panigale Forum > Racing

Tags
alert, mark419ny, special, spoiler



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MotoGP: Assen (spoiler alert) TricoloreSF Racing 4 Jun 29th 2013 09:21 PM
spoiler alert moto gp mark419ny Racing 9 Apr 21st 2013 03:28 PM
MotoGP Q2 (spoiler alert) WAfatboy Motorcycle Talk 0 Apr 6th 2013 03:48 PM
*Spoiler Alert* Race 1 and 2 of WSBK 2013 elitesoldier357 Ducati 1199 0 Feb 27th 2013 10:14 AM
* SPOILER ALERT * Philip Island WSBK DucSyd Ducati 1199 21 Feb 24th 2013 04:18 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed