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Old Jun 21st 2017, 05:18 PM   #91
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Mark I think if you just change, "competitor" to "Contender" all this babble will go away. Technically, everyone who qualifies within the guidelines of the event is a "competitor". Says so right in the book. However not everyone in the event or the series will be a "contender". I view Rossi as competitive as I have witnessed him this year at times, evenly matched with the individual leading the championship on numerous occasions. That being said I do not think he is a "contender" for the championship and he is probably not a "contender" for a win if everyone is having an "on" day. What I do find interesting are the motoGP records. I think MM could have eclipsed Agostini and Rossi but now maybe not. With all the new talent, its going to be difficult for one rider to dominate and pass that record. You have Luthi, Morbidelli and A Marquez all looking for a GP ride at some point. Zarco has a bad fall or some bad luck and that whole "next big thing" is right out the window. So in 20 years, on a global scope, to be fair, Mark would have to also look at the word "competitive" from a career perspective and if Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Zarco, Stoner do not eclipse 8 premier class championships then they compared to Agostini were according to Marks interpretation of the word, "not competitive" in GP MP Motorcycle racing. Just as no one remembers who got second last week. No one remembers the second name on the all time list and on that list.
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Old Jun 21st 2017, 05:46 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by endodoc View Post
Mark I think if you just change, "competitor" to "Contender" all this babble will go away. Technically, everyone who qualifies within the guidelines of the event is a "competitor". Says so right in the book. However not everyone in the event or the series will be a "contender". I view Rossi as competitive as I have witnessed him this year at times, evenly matched with the individual leading the championship on numerous occasions. That being said I do not think he is a "contender" for the championship and he is probably not a "contender" for a win if everyone is having an "on" day. What I do find interesting are the motoGP records. I think MM could have eclipsed Agostini and Rossi but now maybe not. With all the new talent, its going to be difficult for one rider to dominate and pass that record. You have Luthi, Morbidelli and A Marquez all looking for a GP ride at some point. Zarco has a bad fall or some bad luck and that whole "next big thing" is right out the window. So in 20 years, on a global scope, to be fair, Mark would have to also look at the word "competitive" from a career perspective and if Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, Zarco, Stoner do not eclipse 8 premier class championships then they compared to Agostini were according to Marks interpretation of the word, "not competitive" in GP MP Motorcycle racing. Just as no one remembers who got second last week. No one remembers the second name on the all time list and on that list.


I try not to compare eras because everything is so different. For example the greatest athlete of his generation was Jim brown. That's unquestionable however Jim was about 230 when the d line was about 250. In today's game i don't think Jim would have been so dominant.
Where I am going with this is I never said MM or whomever was going to beat agostini record nor do I think it's even relevant. Look at rossi early competition need I say more? Sete biaggi caporossi are no where near the likes of Stoner Lorenzo marquez maverick etc.
The facts whether you chose to believe them or not are that
1 Honda was the most dominant bike around in 2000-2005. Add the crazy tire advantage and it's been said anyone on that bike would have won those titles. It wasn't till 2007 when Stoner was destroying the competition that the crys were spec tires. Why? Because the Golden boy wasn't winning. Close racing was good as long as he won in the end. 08 was a joke he got his tires everyone else where on spec. That was because he threatened to quit. Yes dani got them but the championship was over by the time he got them.
He won a title in 09 I'll give him that. Lorenzo had one of the best seasons ever in 10. Rossi doesn't want to be no 2 rider he leaves for Ducati. First test he was 3 seconds slower than Stoner on the same bike. He never wins a race. 2013 -present he averages 1 race win a year.
If you want to play word games sure we can do that. Rossi isn't a contender. I would argue if it wasn't for the superiority of the m1 he would have left a whole ago. Remember Lorenzo was on the same bike all those years and rossi wasn't close to him and maverick now. Thays how I say he's not competitive. Is he competitive vs the other 18 guys yes. But those guys have no shot at winning anyway. Is he competitive vs the aliens absolutely not.

Ps very civil endodoc no name calling then I don't have to name call back and all that other nonsense.



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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:06 PM   #93
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Good points Mark. It would be nice for more mfg to field bikes so that new talent has something to ride. It would be nice to have 10 guys that had a shot at winning on any given Sunday. I agree that Rossi is not going to win a race this year unless someone falls. There comes a point in time that its inevitable that you need to call it a day. I just don't want to see another Mladin/Spies series where I just tune in to see who got 3rd. I think Rossi is hell bent on a miracle #10. Thats not going to happen either. I would rather see Rossi give up his seat and start a VR 46 team with full Yamaha factory support and give some moto 2 guys a platform to ride.
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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:07 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by mark419ny View Post
since this thread got so long as all my threads do with the great participation rate my threads have. i am the goat forum poster here is what you rossi fans can answer. you can leave off question one cause we all know he hasnt won anything since 09.

can you please explain how rossi is competitive? please use data and not cause you are a fan. please disprove the following.
1. hasnt won anything since 09
2 is on the best machine in motogp and cannot beat his teammate (maverick or JLO).
3 since 2010 has averaged 1 win a season while the championship winner has averaged 5 wins a season.
4 if you cant win a race how are you to win a championship?

the answers that are unacceptable is rossi is motogp (says nothing about how he will win another championship)
rossi makes more money (again tells me nothing about how he will win another championship.
rossi has the most fans etc you get the idea. so when you can disprove 1-5 then you can say he is competitive.

you can use stats like how many poles he has been on (not many), fastest laps (not many), laps lead, wins (most certainly not many) etc.
[Referee steps in] FOUL on question #2! Rossi beat Maverick twice this year (COTA & Catalunya) and the seasons not over yet to officially call Maverick the winner over Rossi yet... Also, did Jlo place higher in the final standings than Rossi every year they were teammates? I don't think so...
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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by endodoc View Post
Good points Mark. It would be nice for more mfg to field bikes so that new talent has something to ride. It would be nice to have 10 guys that had a shot at winning on any given Sunday. I agree that Rossi is not going to win a race this year unless someone falls. There comes a point in time that its inevitable that you need to call it a day. I just don't want to see another Mladin/Spies series where I just tune in to see who got 3rd. I think Rossi is hell bent on a miracle #10. Thats not going to happen either. I would rather see Rossi give up his seat and start a VR 46 team with full Yamaha factory support and give some moto 2 guys a platform to ride.
If there was a VR46 team fans could then continue polluting the stands and track with the yellow puta fog Jlo so hates and despises.
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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:12 PM   #96
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No Flo he didn't however to win a title you have to beat everyone beating jlo when marquez is stomping your head in means very little. Not to mention in 2016 the front tire jorge liked magically disappeared. Problem was marquez lived the new one so the attempt to give him number 10 failed. They are trying this again.
Also rossi has been proven to vote for what is worse for his competition rather than what he likes. Thus maverick losing the front he liked.
Lastly maverick crashed in cota so yes rossi finished better but rossi crashed once also and now that marquez is ahead of rossi he has to get by them both after be in gb spotted 50 points.
Can dani or dovi win?


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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:17 PM   #97
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And let's not forget the parts bin bike they gave spies to get rid of him early as dorna brokered the deal to get rossi back to Yamaha after 2 years of such Stella performances on the Ducati.


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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:19 PM   #98
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True but that's how #2 reads but I'd take a head beating and still be happy to beat my teammate and take 2nd. Didn't Rossi spot 25 points by crashing too?
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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:20 PM   #99
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Yes u are right I am wrong there he did crash so it's 25 I get excited some times fingers are faster than my mind.


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Old Jun 21st 2017, 06:21 PM   #100
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I think the 15 season psychologically finished Valentino. It happened to him in 2006 when he had that championship won but in 2006, he assumed he had more time. Mark we have seen this in the bodybuilding world as you know. How many times can you take a 2nd at the Olymipa and never win it before your head is done. He's done.
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