1299 "r"?

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kismetcapitan

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the 1199R has an extra 1000rpms to play with, due to (please correct me if I'm wrong) stronger (titanium?) conrods.

So what randomly occurs to me now is, what about upgrading the conrods in a 1299 motor to also run 12,500rpm? I wonder if it'll make more peak power way up top. I also wonder if the larger mass of the 1299 piston (assuming that since it has a larger diameter than the 1199), would create too much stress at the piston velocities reached at 12,500rpm...the inertia of a piston reversing direction at high piston velocities is no trivial matter.

I strongly doubt I'd ever pursue such a modification, even if a reliable kit was made, but the mind always tries to think of faster and better. If the human mind did not work this way, we'd still be trundling along in Model Ts and single-cylinder Harleys....
 
I don't believe the Pistons will ever be a issue at higher revs . The rods are really where the problems will occur .
I priced some WSBK cams and a lighter flywheel for my 1299 I would do this with some Carrillo rids over a set of titanium .
I actually find the 1299 to make really good power it does stop off a little on the top but it's really good .
 
Are the Ti valves fitted for the higher rpm the 2015 1199R has ?

If had the funds to waste, would love to turn my soon to be in my hands, crashed 1299S trackbike into a one off 1299R.

But,
Would not like to think of the total cost of all the 2015 1199R engine parts needed to do it,

1299-1199R/SL Crank work and balanced for the heavier 1299 Pistons (Ben Fox?)
1199R/SL Titanium Rods(Ben said to much work to do SL crank using Carillo Rods)
The In + Ex Titanium valves and The SL Cam/s,
Complete Akrapovic System as per 2015 1199R.
Rapidbike Race module to sort it all out :)

At a guess, I'd say £7500gbp with the Akrapovic system+Rapidbike Race( £2850- £3000)

Then the strip and rebuild costs.

For what,

10-15rwhp ???? above what the 1199R with Akrapovic system with open race silencers has(204rwhp)

Bet would be cool to have the only 1299R though eh. :)
 
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can't put a price tag on power :)

to really do it right, I don't think SL parts would cut it. someone's gotta sit down and do the math of 87 extra cc of air moving with every piston stroke, from 11,500 to 12,500. Will a Sprint P08 be enough for the intake, or will the breathing get choked off? And exhausts optimized for 1198cc of flow (for 1199s) may not necessarily flow enough for that extra exhaust flow of 1285cc at 12,500rpm.

so maybe, custom camshafts?

But if one found 1199R heads, those could just bolt on. And the conrod swap of course, and any changes in the conrods will require balancing, but I see no reason why the stock 1299 crank can't be used.

215/220rwhp - that's WSBK territory in terms of power.
 
while we're mulling random ideas, when I was extracting every last bit of the charcoal canister system, it occurred to me that it could be reengineered to work as a cheater dry nitrous system. If one could find a spherical bottle, you could hide that where the exhaust servo would normally go. Then gut the charcoal canister and conceal the requisite nitrous lines, valves, and control hardware inside. 1-2 seconds of a 15 shot of nitrous during a WERA race down the main straight every lap could make a big difference in the outcome of a race....
 
kismetcapitan said:
can't put a price tag on power :)

to really do it right, I don't think SL parts would cut it. someone's gotta sit down and do the math of 87 extra cc of air moving with every piston stroke, from 11,500 to 12,500. Will a Sprint P08 be enough for the intake, or will the breathing get choked off? And exhausts optimized for 1198cc of flow (for 1199s) may not necessarily flow enough for that extra exhaust flow of 1285cc at 12,500rpm.

so maybe, custom camshafts?

But if one found 1199R heads, those could just bolt on. And the conrod swap of course, and any changes in the conrods will require balancing, but I see no reason why the stock 1299 crank can't be used.

215/220rwhp - that's WSBK territory in terms of power.
Click to expand...
i posted this in another thread. This is the actual filter they use in the WSBK Panigale. It is now available with the same filtration material in the P08 filter, but it has 210% more surface area. What that means for us, is that we can have the ultimate air flow, with the best filtration possible.. A no brainer even at $340 !!!

Sprint Filter Introduces FIM Homologated Air Filters For Ducati Panigales - Motorcycle.com News

More than enough flow to support what a 1299R would need. I have two on order.
 
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The only reason there would be any sense in this would be if there was an increase in reliability. If somebody can't win with 200hp, they won't win with 215hp.

Not to mention that extra 15hp would only result in more electronic intervention.
 
Chaotic said:
If you actually raced you would also know that is illegal as .....
Click to expand...

obviously. but if there's racing, there's cheating. there's a reason why small nitrous bottles are called cheater bottles or sneaky petes. I would never go through that trouble, nor care enough about winning to cheat; it's just something that occurred to me as I removed the plumbing to the charcoal canister and plugged the port in the throttle body.
 
Chaotic said:
The only reason there would be any sense in this would be if there was an increase in reliability. If somebody can't win with 200hp, they won't win with 215hp.

Not to mention that extra 15hp would only result in more electronic intervention.
Click to expand...

it does make me wonder, about the whole horsepower arms race for track-oriented short wheelbase bikes. More power doesn't help in corners on the track, not necessarily, only on straights.

and yesterday, when I was doing roll-ons, playing with friends, I found I was slower and my front wheel kept lifting, when I used the new Tuneboy super-aggressive throttle mapping. What ended up being the fastest in a straight line? The stock throttle map that limits the first 3 gears to 70%. Go figure.
 
Grayson said:
It doesn't matter if you win by a inch or a mile, winning is winning. - Dom
Click to expand...

I don't know who first said it, but I like "the goal is to win while going as slow as possible".

And it makes ALOT of sense. I never go faster than required. The faster you go, the bigger the risk (and the harder you are stressing the bike and tires). It also takes alot of energy to ride your hardest lap after lap. Once I get settled in a position and am either in front, or know I won't be able to get into a higher position for whatever reason, I will ride hard enough to maintain my current position and no harder.
 
Chaotic said:
I don't know who first said it, but I like "the goal is to win while going as slow as possible".

And it makes ALOT of sense. I never go faster than required. The faster you go, the bigger the risk (and the harder you are stressing the bike and tires). It also takes alot of energy to ride your hardest lap after lap. Once I get settled in a position and am either in front, or know I won't be able to get into a higher position for whatever reason, I will ride hard enough to maintain my current position and no harder.
Click to expand...

I can say with absolute certainty that Marc Marquez did not get that memo....
 
kismetcapitan said:
I can say with absolute certainty that Marc Marquez did not get that memo....
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head with that observation. I think Marquez is still in a place where he thinks he has to go balls out every single second of every single race. He is definitely the fastest guy out ther right now, but he has to learn to make strategic decisions.

I think Rossi has it this year; I don't really like Marquez very much, but he will win a bunch more titles in the future, if he can develop some wisdom to go along with his otherworldly speed.
 
kismetcapitan said:
while we're mulling random ideas, when I was extracting every last bit of the charcoal canister system, it occurred to me that it could be reengineered to work as a cheater dry nitrous system. If one could find a spherical bottle, you could hide that where the exhaust servo would normally go. Then gut the charcoal canister and conceal the requisite nitrous lines, valves, and control hardware inside. 1-2 seconds of a 15 shot of nitrous during a WERA race down the main straight every lap could make a big difference in the outcome of a race....
Click to expand...


This is gold. Keep it coming. Thanks.
 
bradp51 said:
This is gold. Keep it coming. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'd have loved to hear your comments and snickers if we went back in time and some hack in his backyard was talking about making a rear subframe out of a radiator to save weight and bolting a Hossack suspension to the front cylinder only....
 
The NOS trick is a club racing legend. I've heard several stories of people trying it, but never seen it happen. The main issue is hiding the bottle and plumbing. Plus it's super obvious to spot the acceleration difference and file a protest.

People have been nabbed in quite a few clubs running 750 motors in a GSXR600 chassis.
 

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