899 Brakes

tcelano · Aug 2, 2014

Didn't want to immediately jump to replacing the whole brake system on 899 track bike, so I'm trying a couple things first.

1. Removed the floating brake pad pin, drilled out the threads, and replaced it with a GR 12.9 6mmx55mm bolt, and a mechanical lock nut (no nylock here). Lever feel seems immediately stiffer as the bolt should keep the caliper from flexing so much.

2. Got the Ferodo HH pads

3. Going down to "1" on the ABS

Have a track day next week, so will report back if it's better.

The stock brakes did stop the bike, but it was a little disconcerting how hard I was pulling on it compared to what I'm used to.

tcelano · Aug 11, 2014

Follow-up:

I rode the 899 today with the setup discussed above, and it is a significant improvement in brake feel. They are still not 1199 brakes, but I'd say good enough now for the lower speeds of the 899.

Also spent the day making suspension adjustments, riding back to back with the 1199R. I got the 899 to work really well by the end of the day, and am feeling pretty confident on it now. I wasn't pushing for lap times on either bike due to an injury, but I was going decently, and running about the same times on both bikes. The 899 is a solid machine that just works. No drama. It is conclusively faster than the 848's and a Triumph 675R I was running with. It won't quite pull with a stock R1, but you don't lose as much ground there as you'd expect.

Gecko · Aug 12, 2014

Cool. Creative solution! Although I don't understand why this helps improving the brake's behaviour

(not changing the pads, but changing the pin)
Would it make sense to do something like this on a 1199? I am hooked...

XCLR8TN · Aug 12, 2014

I hate to be "that person" but do you have any pictures of what you did with the bolt?

Riding 1199 vs 899 back to back does make the brake feel of the 899 a little disconcerting.

tcelano · Aug 13, 2014

I'll take more pics when I get back.

The stock pin is threaded near the head, and just floats in an eye on the inboard side of the caliper. It's only job is to retain the pads, which by the way can be changed without removing the caliper from the fork.

My mod replaces that floating pin with a high strength bolt andca nut on the inside. It helps keeping the sides of the caliper from flexing.

No , this mod is not possible or needed on the M50 caliper since it was cast or machined with a solid bridge that does this job.

This doesn't make the system work as well as M50's, but like I said, good enough for 899 speeds and my ability level.

I am tempted to maybe change to a smaller master cylinder now that it feels stiff enough. If you did that without stiffening the calipers, you'd need really long fingers to get enough lever travel to keep it off your knuckles.

Gecko · Aug 13, 2014

Ahh, now I understand. Thank you for sharing this information!

tcelano · Aug 18, 2014

I raced the 899 this weekend. It went pretty well, although as I went faster, I uncovered deficiencies in the stock forks. The bike drives off turns very well, and flicks with much less effort than my R6. I was able to go about 0.7 sec faster than the R6, although there is more potential there. The brakes are ok now, although the lever effort is still too much so I'm not confident I can still pull it hard enough at the end of a race. Either more grip exercises or a smaller bore master cylinder will be necessary, as is a fork rebuild to get it to stop. I put new Braking discs and Galfer pads on the R6, and that bike can just drop anchor now, so it's still weird to go out with more power and less brakes.

MustangWolf · Aug 18, 2014

Have you considered bypassing ABS entirely?

tcelano · Aug 19, 2014

Well, I'm trying to keep the bike eligible for the 750 Supersport class:

(B-3) The following is a list of the only things that should or may be done to a Supersport machine. If the OMRRA Rulebook does not explicitly mention you can do it, you cannot.

Brakes: Race-type brake linings may be used. All other brake system components must remain stock
except hydraulic lines (see below).

Therefore, you can't mess with that, or calipers, unless you want to go Superbike only. I'm going to go ahead and bolt on a 19RCS-18 master cylinder. If I get called on that, I'll cite it as an outright safety issue and try to lump in the lever rule.

Also, by the time it becomes an issue, there should be better pads available, and I can revert to the stock master cylinder.

tcelano · Sep 2, 2014

Test with 19RCS master successful. I had to move the start/kill button off the handlebar to make it work, but between moving the lever over to the left, which lets me grab the lever further out, plus the extra line pressure from the 19RCS, the bike now will stand on its nose like an 1199 with two fingers. Good enough. I have the master set at the minimum radius, and it probably could get away with moving it out a bit for a little more feel and a little less power.

Note, that this probably won't work unless you stiffen the calipers like I described. I think you'd run out of lever throw with this master on the stock calipers.

jarelj · Sep 9, 2014

I got my ABS bypass project done and did 2 days at the track this weekend with the new setup. All I can say now is that the brakes SUCKED before compared to this, even with upgraded master, calipers, pads and rotors and with ABS turned off, it was nowhere near as good as it is with direct lines going straight to the calipers. Braking power is up but most importantly the feel is back, I think the extra plumbing of the ABS system just mutes the feedback you get from the brakes and makes them inherently more "spongy" feeling. Now that I've tried it for nearly a full season with ABS on, ABS off, and then ABS bypassed, it's clear that bypassing the ABS gives the best braking performance for the track.

Ljuice26 · Oct 15, 2014

Jarel, The bypass is just simply running new lines straight to the calipers? After feeling all the ABS intervention at my last track day, and not liking it one bit, I'm ready to try this.

jarelj · Oct 16, 2014

Ljuice26 said:
Jarel, The bypass is just simply running new lines straight to the calipers? After feeling all the ABS intervention at my last track day, and not liking it one bit, I'm ready to try this.

Yes, lines straight to the calipers and plug the ports in the ABS pump.

Ljuice26 · Oct 16, 2014

jarelj said:
Yes, lines straight to the calipers and plug the ports in the ABS pump.

Thanks man.

Phl · Oct 16, 2014

there should be a non-leak quick-connect kit to do this

899 Brakes

Help Support Ducati Forum:

tcelano

Attachments

tcelano

Gecko

XCLR8TN

tcelano

Gecko

tcelano

MustangWolf

tcelano

tcelano

jarelj

Ljuice26

jarelj

Ljuice26

Phl

Moderator

Similar threads

Register CTA

Recent Discussions