Another dyno run full Termi, MWR & TuneBoy - Way Rich

Another dyno run full Termi, MWR & TuneBoy - Way Too Rich

Here is a run on a Dynojet dyno at the California Rendevous in Madera, California over this weekend. As you can see, right in line with all the other runs we see reported on this forum with 174.43/87.72 (7600 miles on my 2012 Tricolore) including the same dip we see in all the curves. Even though I have the MWR high-efficiency air filter with accessory plate kit, full Termi (baffles out), and the TuneBoy trim program for the full Termi (wow, is that trim program a joke!), you can see (sorry the image is so small) it is still way rich (we want an AFR of 14 ideally, and this is the reason for the posting) from 6000 up to redline, especially between 7000 and 7500, and again at 10,300 where the AFR was at 12 for both points. The best it gets (over 5000) is at 8500 where it touches AFR 13 for just an instant before going right back to richer still. The area of 7000 to 7500 corresponds to the approximate center of the trough in the hp and torque curves. It appears the only way to get the tune near correct air/fuel ratio-wise is by having it done locally on a dyno by someone familiar with the TuneBoy system (not easy to find). I did not disconnect the rear speed sensor prior to the run - two questions: is it necessary for achieving the maximum power reading, and second, how do you best accomplish this removal? One final question for those that have run their bikes with and without the rear wheel speed sensor - what was the difference between the two runs, if any (no other changes)? Thanks, and I hope I have added another small bit of information so we can better understand how to tune our bikes correctly.

Jim, I think if you don't disconnect the speed sensor, that you will get lower readings. I cannot remember the reason why. With a full system and tuneboy, I would expect 180+.

You do need to remove speed sensor, and turn off ABS and DTC from memory apparently. When we dyno'd my bike with Termi slips we got 172hp.

I got just over 176 rwhp with my full Termignoni's sans packing, powerkoted inside and out, with MWR He filter and PCV with autotune. My midrange has fattened substantially.

So by 'flattened' we should read 'made worse'?

This is a comparison between a stock bike and a full system that a local tuner shared with me a while back.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j4d8d1movsn99x/Patto bike std vs 70mm with std upmap bhp.pdf

Don't get too hung up on the actual numbers, this dyno reads about 10hp higher than the other one I quoted.

That doesn't look to pretty down low

Here is my Akrapovic full exhaust with tuneboy custom tune. I tuned it on the dyno myself though. Also you need to remove the sensor or the ecu richens the afr to compensate for ram air effect. I have verified this myself on the dyno. Also tune each cylinder individually.

You cant compare number from different Dynos.

But the bike is indeed rich.
14:1 like you said would be too lean.

Most of the time 13 to 13.2:1 is the best AFR.

yzf856 said:

Here is my Akrapovic full exhaust with tuneboy custom tune. I tuned it on the dyno myself though. Also you need to remove the sensor or the ecu richens the afr to compensate for ram air effect. I have verified this myself on the dyno. Also tune each cylinder individually.

Click to expand...

By sensor are you talking about the rear wheel sensor? Had mine on the dyno recently, like HJ it was running extremely rich (with the sensor disconnected) They didn't have much airflow over the bike though & I gather the bike is sensitive to it?

HJ - I think the easiest place to unplug the RWS is under the RHS upper fairing, just below the tank.

SPJ said:

HJ - I think the easiest place to unplug the RWS is under the RHS upper fairing, just below the tank.

Click to expand...

If you don't take the side fairing off, it's only an 8mm socket just below the rear wheel hub on the left side.

Not a motorcycle tech. But I tune engines to performance on the dyno or load bank. Not to the #'s.

But I do watch the #'s to make sure they make sense. 14:1 seems really lean to me at WOT. Can the Ducati withstand that? Better watch your EGT's.

WAfatboy said:

So by 'flattened' we should read 'made worse'?

This is a comparison between a stock bike and a full system that a local tuner shared with me a while back.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9j4d8d1movsn99x/Patto bike std vs 70mm with std upmap bhp.pdf

Don't get too hung up on the actual numbers, this dyno reads about 10hp higher than the other one I quoted.

Click to expand...

I should have said "fattened"....

Unbolt the sensor from the rear caliper bracket and tie it out of the way. Be careful as there are shims also that space the sensor out and you dont want to loose them. If you do get your bike tuned in then use 4th gear for tuning to best afr. After your done tuning for best power then add around 2 percent more fuel to be on the safe side since you will ride in different conditions through out the year. Same with timing, find optimum ignition timing and then pull 2 degrees out from that.

Claymore said:

I should have said "fattened"....

Click to expand...

From 4-6.5k definitely fatter but slips come back after that.

i find you guys all very brave to go play with the mapping on a termi to try to outdo the latest upmap from DP itself... to beat it by a couple of bhp, maybe? i understand if you must have an akra , but to beat the termi upmap?

kope999R, my main reason is that I feel the upmap from Ducati runs far poorer than the map from TuneBoy (although it (TuneBoy) is still very rich under dyno conditions). I had a reminder when I picked the bike up after its 7500 miles service, and they had wiped the TuneBoy program from the ECU, leaving me with the program for full Termis as loaded by my upmap install. It ran absolutely awful. Upon reloading the TuneBoy program, there was an immediate, and hugely better running motorcycle. I didn't even remember it being that different before the TuneBoy install - but it was.

^ what he said. Leaner than Ducati but still very rich.

Was it running poorly with a lot of load/throttle?

Running around town with light load I expect 14.7 AFR, running around rich does make the bike run poorly. But I want to see the ECM run rich at full throttle.

If it's running rich at light throttle, that's a different problem than tuning just full throttle AFR dyno settings. Could be a bad sensor.

Buliwyf, it ran terrible on light throttle. I did not jump on it hard after I picked it up from the dealer after servicing. It ran so awful, and the cruise function was inoperable, I was certain the TuneBoy program had been wiped (and there was a check engine light on as well due to the O2 sensors being gone). I immediately drove it home, and reloaded the program. All was wonderful after that.

HarmonyJim said:

Buliwyf, it ran terrible on light throttle. I did not jump on it hard after I picked it up from the dealer after servicing. It ran so awful, and the cruise function was inoperable, I was certain the TuneBoy program had been wiped (and there was a check engine light on as well due to the O2 sensors being gone). I immediately drove it home, and reloaded the program. All was wonderful after that.

Click to expand...

The stock tune with or without UpMap requires the stock Oxygen Sensors and had no way to read and adjust fueling. This should not be done and lucky it didn't hurt anything as it had to operate in a reduced power mode.