Clutchless downshifts

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Dec 3, 2012
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On most SuperBikes they have a quickshifter that works in both directions, it kills the motor on up-shifts and blips the throttle on down-shifts.
I am thinking of adding the down-shift blip option to the TuneBoy software.
This would require a different shift switch on the shift rod.
Is this an option that would interest people ?
 
Hmmm. Never heard of anything eliminating the clutch for downshifts? If you are referring to the actions of the "slipper clutch" allowing you to do this, then I see what you mean.

Never used "Tuneboy" so cant comment on this and its capabilities but again I never heard of something that enables you to NOT use the clutch for DOWNSHIFTS!
 
It sounds interesting, I find blipping the throttle on the downshift inconsistent on the 1199, I can't really describe what happens but unless I give it a serious twist the engine doesn't blip, its like I'm fighting some inertia or there is a delay in the fly-by-wire system. I know Justin at ProTwin who's been using your software with his new dyno soif you come up with a solution I'd be interested in trying.
 
I'm not sure if the 1199 EBC or whatever gets in the way. But you can clutchless downshift on most bikes - but its obviously better if the RPM's are somewhat matched. It's obviously not as good for the bikes gears but I do know quite a few race guys who do it.

I imagine if you are trying to set up for it by doing some sort of retardation of the throttle - you'd have to put some sort of pressure switch in there to detect pressure for the downshift to be happening before it happens. . .
 
Doing a down-shift without the clutch needs the load on the gearbox to be removed, this is when the kill does for the up-shift.
On the up-shift the load on the gearbox is coming from the engine power, killing the power for 70 m/s is enough to allow the gearbox to shift.
On a down-shift the load on the gearbox is from the engine braking.
The software in the ECU can give a small blip of the throttle to un-load the gearbox long enough to shift down a gear.
The code in the ECU needs a bunch of checks. It needs to work out the size of the blip required and it needs to make sure the blip will not over-rev the motor.
With this feature you can just push down on the lever and the motor ECU will blip the motor just long enough for the down shift.
This is very different to the slipper clutch function.
 
I, like WAfatboy, find the blip inconsistent too. My guess is it's the EBC intervention in hard downshift applications. Even when EBC is set to 1, if I'm braking hard for a turn the blip required is more like a rev.

wmcdonal, I find this interesting but would want to know the parameters/thresholds you're using as it could be a scary proposition on the the track, otherwise.

On another note, are you already or considering programming a launch control? If so, what are those parameters and how does it work?

Cheers and impressive work you're doing here.
 
The amount of blip would be the smallest amount required to unload the gearbox for the down-shift.
This is something the ECU can do with exact timing every time, very different to a manual blip.

Yes I have thought about launch control.
This could be done by limiting the throttle opening based on speed.
It could also be done based on the gyro value from an external device like a phone or iPod.
 
The blip is likely useful on a track where you are likely to downshift/brake, turn and then continue to accelerate/upshift. Doesn't the clutch still need to be disengaged to avoid a lunge during the blip and downshift?

I am also trying to understand the concept for when I am street riding - coming to a stop or just coming down the gears not too aggressively. Will you have the option to turn on/off this blip function?

Lot of high end cars are coming with this option but they are all either auto/semi auto transmissions. Never heard of manual transmission cars having this option. Thanks for making us think.
 
The new MV Agusta F4 RR R has the up shift and downshift power shifter.

It will be added by other manufacturers for sure.
 
It sounds interesting, I find blipping the throttle on the downshift inconsistent on the 1199, I can't really describe what happens but unless I give it a serious twist the engine doesn't blip, its like I'm fighting some inertia or there is a delay in the fly-by-wire system. I know Justin at ProTwin who's been using your software with his new dyno soif you come up with a solution I'd be interested in trying.
Have you loaded the latest ECU upgrade? I had the same complaint with my Tri on blipping for downshifts and the new upgrade made a difference.
 
Have you loaded the latest ECU upgrade? I had the same complaint with my Tri on blipping for downshifts and the new upgrade made a difference.

Yep I have the latest map and have had my 12,000km service.
 
Most cars don't have sequential gearboxes.
The electronic blip for down-shifting will make the down-shift smooth, not the other way around.
The kill for up-shift can be used on the road, I don't know why people think the down-shift should be any different.
They use it in racing because it provides a smooth shift, not because they are OK with a harsh down-shift.
 
Good idea; very useful feature. If I recall correctly, Keith Code teaches rapid, throttle-blipping clutchless downshifting as the way to go, but says it's one of the most complicated techniques to execute properly, since you're turning, braking, and blipping all with the same hand. There's a reason why every SBK and MotoGP team uses auto-blippers these days - frees up some mental/physical bandwidth to use for other things.

Do you need automatic rev-matching for downshifts? Not really, and of course some will say you really don't need a quickshifter or a slipper clutch either if you have good technique. There's some truth in that, as well as some pleasure in getting it right without aids. But if you think QS and slippers are good things you'll likely think this is a good thing too. My guess is all sportsbikes will probably have them before it's all said and done. Heck even Nissan 370Z's and the new C7 Corvette have it.

@WAfatboy - the Proshift actually rotates the shift drum itelf; all you have to do is hit the shift button on the handlebar, a bit like a mountain bike shifter if you've ever seen one. Don't even need a foot lever. The rev matching does work similarly, though.
 
The way this would work is to look up a table for RPM and gear to work out the blip height and duration.
When the numbers are right in this table the shift will be spot on every time.
I imagine the numbers will be the same for all Pani's
 
It sounds interesting, I find blipping the throttle on the downshift inconsistent on the 1199, I can't really describe what happens but unless I give it a serious twist the engine doesn't blip, its like I'm fighting some inertia or there is a delay in the fly-by-wire system. I know Justin at ProTwin who's been using your software with his new dyno soif you come up with a solution I'd be interested in trying.

I agree with you blipping seems a bit odd with the panigale.
 
Ye its not like it won't blip, it will, but not always. Never heard a convincing explanation as to why. Personally it's got something to do with the change in engine that you hear when you pull in the clutch even when not touching the gas.
 

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