DDA+ or alternative GPS?

Hi everybody,

Did anyone have opportunity to test another Data Acquisition system beside the DDA+ ?

Thanks

I'd be interested in this as well. I've used the DDA once with mixed results. The basic operation at the track seemed to be pretty good until I discovered it wouldn't allow me to have separate sessions but just one set of continuous laps. Also we probably 60 laps that day and the unit overwrites after 30 and that buggered up the data so only the first 10 were accessible after.

I would be be very grateful for a manual but can't find one!

Is there anyway to down load info?

Sloopy said:

Is there anyway to down load info?

Click to expand...

Yes you can download into analyser software, maps the data against the GPS map. You just unplug it from bike and stick it into USB port on PC/Mac.

I used the Starlane GPS unit previously, as well as the Digitek data logger, and now have the DDA+. I'd say the software between the Starlane and the DDA+ is very similar, both are "Italian" so not the most intuitive software. The Digitek was at another level, more professional type software and the data logger recorded a lot more channels, but it also took a lot of training to figure out how to use the sofware, it's made for professional race engineers. Overall I like the DDA+, especially the integration with the stock ECU and displaying the lap times out on the dash in real time, rather than having a separate lap time display that you have to mount somewhere. I think for the purposes of anyone who's not racing for a professional championship, this really gives you all the basic information you need to help improve your riding, and it's comparably much less expensive than a pro data logger.

jarelj said:

I used the Starlane GPS unit previously, as well as the Digitek data logger, and now have the DDA+. I'd say the software between the Starlane and the DDA+ is very similar, both are "Italian" so not the most intuitive software. The Digitek was at another level, more professional type software and the data logger recorded a lot more channels, but it also took a lot of training to figure out how to use the sofware, it's made for professional race engineers. Overall I like the DDA+, especially the integration with the stock ECU and displaying the lap times out on the dash in real time, rather than having a separate lap time display that you have to mount somewhere. I think for the purposes of anyone who's not racing for a professional championship, this really gives you all the basic information you need to help improve your riding, and it's comparably much less expensive than a pro data logger.

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Any idea where I can find a user guide though?

From my experience if you want to start working with GPS based data logger, working with DDA is a good starting point. It's a well developed package that can help you learn how you driving can be printed on a pc screen and start making changes to become better.
Ducati Riding Experience (DRE) uses DDA data and analyse them to show their stundents their mistakes and how to become better and safer on the track. So overal I beleive it's good tool for everyone that enjoy their trackday and try to become better.

Starlane is the next lever. I have used starlane systems a lot the last four years on many bikes and I must admit it's a good tool if you demand more, closer to advanced data loggers & programs (like motec i2 or aim race studio) but not paying a fortune to have their loggers.
It's easy to use and from it's second version, Digirace MMX software (2.xx) it has great tools to work with them, with the driver and the setup of the bike. Please notice that their software is always in development so it by time becomes better, more advanced and with more options.

DimST said:

From my experience if you want to start working with GPS based data logger, working with DDA is a good starting point. It's a well developed package that can help you learn how you driving can be printed on a pc screen and start making changes to become better.
Ducati Riding Experience (DRE) uses DDA data and analyse them to show their stundents their mistakes and how to become better and safer on the track. So overal I beleive it's good tool for everyone that enjoy their trackday and try to become better.

Starlane is the next lever. I have used starlane systems a lot the last four years on many bikes and I must admit it's a good tool if you demand more, closer to advanced data loggers & programs (like motec i2 or aim race studio) but not paying a fortune to have their loggers.
It's easy to use and from it's second version, Digirace MMX software (2.xx) it has great tools to work with them, with the driver and the setup of the bike. Please notice that their software is always in development so it by time becomes better, more advanced and with more options.

Click to expand...

Thanks DimST,

What about this one?

- Quick shifter, automatic chrono, gear indicator, digital dashboard, quick shift kit, data acquisition system, gps laptimer,gps lap timer, quickshifter, motorbike, kart and car.

Seems it's a GPS that can fit the software on board, in a few word a DDA by Starlane?

This product was designed for Starlane on behalf of Ducati to fit 1098 series bikes.
Ducati was selling the same unit with their logo and starlane the exact same product with starlane logo.
It's a simple gps received that when you point the Start/finish of the track it can display laptime on standard Ducati digitec dash and store laptime to dda.
The problem is that it's not compatible with Panigale series bikes.

If you would like a Starlane standalone system I suggest you try Starlane Stealth 3X gps system. Light, easy to install and use it and you can even put it on another bike or car prety easy.
Actually know a lot of people, especially in italy that use it, it's more or less the standard because of it's acurancly, good software and low cost.

I can heartily recommend the Starlane product if you want a simple GPS lap timer. I use the Athlon (next level up from the Stealth). The Starlane products are excellent and much easier to use in my opinion. I am not a fan of the DDA/DDA+ (ex Prosa) stuff. . . The new 1199 is much better than before, but even then its a bit kludgy compared to the better stuff (even as a lap timer). From software standpoint - it works, but its just a bit above entry level. Motec is top of the heap, but you're going to pay top dollar for it for data acquisition. We're talking minimum 6K - more than likely approaching 10. The next level is something like AIM - many racers run aim, and their software is decent (race studio). both aim and motec software is free, but it really only works with their system.

As someone else mentioned - starlane product is that next level down with their digirace software (again free). And then the Ducati stuff.

That being said - the Ducati stuff is a bit more integrated into the bike at this time. All the others require some sort of sensor installation/etc. AIM has a ducati ECU plug so it can get the same data as DDA which is a plus - but if you're serious about data acquisition - the data you need requires more sensors (predominantly brake pressure and suspension travel). RPM/etc is "cool" on track video's and such, but its not the data that you need to get better. . ..

I got some great news about Starlane and our bikes!
In the next few days they will announce a dedicated Panigale version, based on thei Athon XP that will be able to connect, collect and log data from the can bus. At the same time a racer will be able to connect other analog sensors to log data from the suspensions or lamda etc.
The big difference is the price that includes their small and with much details monitor compared to evo4 that is actually just an input/output device!

Attached are pictures from the unit I used on our Panigale to start collecting data. It's the standard version XP I used on our last season with 1098R.
As soon as I have the new unit I post some pics and data!

DimST said:

The big difference is the price that includes their small and with much details monitor compared to evo4 that is actually just an input/output device!
!

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Not sure I understand your language or grammar or what you actually mean by this sentence ???

Sorry about that, it's too late over here.

Here is the same sentence with the words in the correct order.

"The big difference with evo4 which is an input/output box is that starlane product includes a dash"

Better?

DimST said:

Sorry about that, it's too late over here.

Here is the same sentence with the words in the correct order.

"The big difference with evo4 which is an input/output box is that starlane product includes a dash"

Better?

Click to expand...

Yes - much . I have both units. I will say the Aim unit is a far superior product. The starlane is easier if you want a GPS laptimer (great athlon display) but not much else (or a K-line rpm readout). The fact that they /finally/ got a CAN line into the ECU is a huge plus. . But AIM has that for the panigale out already. It works and its amazing in the detail that you get out of it. Everything in the ECU is available to the Evo. (which will also be avaiable to the Starlane). However with the Evo4 and paired up with say a G-dash or something simpler or more complex - you can put any of the information you want out there. It's a lot more flexible and a true datalogger vs a glorious lap timer if that makes sense.. .

Anyhow, I like the Starlane Athlon, but the Aim data logger is far and away the better kit if you want more. . .

Let say first of all that AIM is a product leader, close to 2D or motec products.
Starlane is a company that now starts to evolve, software changes have been huge the last three years with big steps forward.
I've used starlane products for the last 4 years and I must tell you that it's not just a dash that you can see your rpm or rev limit.
I've been using most of the sensors I could use like potensionmeters, pressure and temp sensors for oil, brake or water and lamda sensors and I'm happy with the data I got. I can guarantee you that they helped me make drivers go faster and more important safer and bikes become better (5 national champions in 4 years for my team and starlane products).
AIM is another level I totaly aggree, especially with their software which is faster, more stable and with more capabilities... seems a lot like i2 I'm working some time now to analyse data I collect from motec ecu and dash.

Now, regarding Panigale and the canbus data, not everything is available with evo4... they actually record the same data like Starlane, both haven't unlocked the data for the traction control, not even the on/off you get from the dash... yet
I totaly agree though that for Starlane starting using the data from the can is a huge step forward! (they have already done it take data from the can with Aprilia RSV4 and BMW S1000 but with their top-line product, Davinci-R dash)

I believe in Starlane products, they made a lot of people make the first step with gps technology data loggers and laptimers (they actually dominate low/mid cost loggers in the market right now!) and I think that the future is theirs. But I must admit when I needed something more advance (and FAR more expensive) I went with motec, I like aim and I've used them in some occasions but I find motec products more complete with the range they offer, I'm sure you will probably agree with me on this.

Cheers!

DimST said:

Let say first of all that AIM is a product leader, close to 2D or motec products.
Starlane is a company that now starts to evolve, software changes have been huge the last three years with big steps forward.
I've used starlane products for the last 4 years and I must tell you that it's not just a dash that you can see your rpm or rev limit.
I've been using most of the sensors I could use like potensionmeters, pressure and temp sensors for oil, brake or water and lamda sensors and I'm happy with the data I got. I can guarantee you that they helped me make drivers go faster and more important safer and bikes become better (5 national champions in 4 years for my team and starlane products).
AIM is another level I totaly aggree, especially with their software which is faster, more stable and with more capabilities... seems a lot like i2 I'm working some time now to analyse data I collect from motec ecu and dash.

Now, regarding Panigale and the canbus data, not everything is available with evo4... they actually record the same data like Starlane, both haven't unlocked the data for the traction control, not even the on/off you get from the dash... yet
I totaly agree though that for Starlane starting using the data from the can is a huge step forward! (they have already done it take data from the can with Aprilia RSV4 and BMW S1000 but with their top-line product, Davinci-R dash)

I believe in Starlane products, they made a lot of people make the first step with gps technology data loggers and laptimers (they actually dominate low/mid cost loggers in the market right now!) and I think that the future is theirs. But I must admit when I needed something more advance (and FAR more expensive) I went with motec, I like aim and I've used them in some occasions but I find motec products more complete with the range they offer, I'm sure you will probably agree with me on this.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Agree 100%. . . It goes like this - Starlane ~$1000, Aim ~2000, Motec/Pi-Cosworth/MM/etc - $8000+.

As I mentioned - I think its great that Starlane has finally integrated CanBus input into their products. I really like their small dash units as I can have multiple power/K harnesses on my bikes and just attach two screw connections and have a great gps laptimer. ..

Aim has really gone after ECU connections and I think that has really helped them. And you are right, they are exposed to the same Can data from the ECU if they are both from the same connection. It obviously doesn't have everything, and certainly not on the same level as say a MM, Motec replacement ECU that has taken over /all/ functions of the bike. But the data I want for myself (and sounds like certainly less than what you require) I have better luck with the AIM (as I said - if I was installing a unit, thats what I'd go with for track use. If I wanted one that I could switch around - the Starlane Athlon wins). Predominantly because the RS2 software is still better than DigiRace, but DigiRace has improved greatly. I primarily want rpm, speed, brake pressure, g-forces and video synchronization (which I don't think anyone else does as well as Aim for motorcycle applications).

But yes, I think we agree and its great that we have these choices out there.

anthem said:

Agree 100%. . . It goes like this - Starlane ~$1000, Aim ~2000, Motec/Pi-Cosworth/MM/etc - $8000+.

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Anthem - when you have a minute could you create a little matrix along side those prices with the advantage of each? And add the DDA GPS to it as well.

Trauma said:

Anthem - when you have a minute could you create a little matrix along side those prices with the advantage of each? And add the DDA GPS to it as well.

Click to expand...

Things are in flux with the more entry level stuff but here is a quick break down -

DDA+ from Ducati (600, or included with Tri/R) - full access to ECU data (rpm, speed, temps, etc). If you add brake pressure and suspension pots, add 4k to the equation although realistically you're more interested in half of the setup (front brake, front suspension). If you do get the 4k SSTK package, that data will also be available to the other units listed below that tap the ECU. Data is displayed on stock dash, but limited to what you can show and display. Software from Ducati is "average".

Starlane - athlon (they also have stealth(lower) and Davinci(dash) Athlon price is around $800 I believe - about to have full access to ECU so it can log data. Excellent GPS lap timer, shift lights, etc. Before the ecu connection, you had to wire in K rpm line, and other sensors. Now tapping the ECU makes it simpler. Will have same access as DDA does - and has the ability to add a few extra sensors. Semi-portable in that you can wire two simple harnesses into your bike (power,rpm, etc) and move the display to bike to bike to bike. Digirace software is getting better and probably already better than Ducati/Prosa.

Aim - start getting into some serious Data acq at this level. Excellent support in the US (east and west coast). Taps into majority of ECU's for bikes, cars and karts. Can expand analog and digital inputs, multiple display options from a simple lap timer, to configurable lap timers, to complex dash units that completely replace oem dash. Evo unit has tri-axial accelerometers and GPS built in. Also has logger dash units that display and log at the same time. Integrates with their smartycam camera system that is heads and shoulders above everything else out there. HD version coming out in a month or two as well. The smartycam - allows you to overlay whatever data the evo is getting from ECU and overlay that onto the video - so you can show rpm, speed, brake pressure (if you have the sensor), suspension pots (sensor), temps, etc, etc on the actual track video. Then you can see as you're riding the track - where you braked and how hard on the actual video - when you got on the rpm, how hard, how fast, how long, etc. Everything into the RaceStudio 2 software suite - very good software and significant improvement over previous mentioned.

Motec, Pi/Cosworth, MM - all grouped together as these are the race team stuff. You are looking at 5 figures to the sky for most of these. They generally replace the ECU and give you a nice bundle wire harness and you're responble for wiring the bike together AND programming the ECU. Sounds difficult, but most bike/ecu programmers can do the basic stuff in their sleep. It's that final 2% that makes the difference between winning and rest of the field that takes the real genius. They have video recorders that sync and just about anything else you want - but it isn't very end user friendly. The size of the boxes are also a challenge. .. Software is generally free (or very low cost) because they know its useless without their hardware. i2 from Motec is top notch.

Thats about it in a nutshell. As DimST mentioned, Starlane is creeping into the bigger fish territory. If you aren't doing consolidated video - then that platform is a serious contender as it has easy ECU connection data now and very motorcycle functional mini-dash/lap timers. If you want video sync that is easier than using a 3rd party software(eg race render, trackvision, etc) to match the exported starlane (or other) gps data with some track video (like hero, contour, etc) - then the aim stuff with their smartycam wins hands down. Not cheap though as smartycam by itself is 1k

Here is an example of data into aim data loggers synced to their smartycam camera. You can customize the controls you want to put on their, the logos, the dials, whatever. But it takes the data from the logger and overlays it onto the video automatically at recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFfaXKkWQI4&list=UUi9nUjNotkdKzZQr3gca3Gw&index=29

You won't believe how much you'll learn about your track riding with one session with just that data/inputs overlaid on top of your video and studying that. The hardcore data acq for the rest is half how to make you better and also how to make the bike better but is a lot more work. This type of video is instantaneous to address the first 90% - the last 10% takes a lot more work. But 98% of us need to work on the 90% and not the 10%.

Ok, whew - enough typing.

anthem said:

Things are in flux with the more entry level stuff but here is a quick break down -

DDA+ from Ducati (600, or included with Tri/R) - full access to ECU data (rpm, speed, temps, etc). If you add brake pressure and suspension pots, add 4k to the equation although realistically you're more interested in half of the setup (front brake, front suspension#. If you do get the 4k SSTK package, that data will also be available to the other units listed below that tap the ECU. Data is displayed on stock dash, but limited to what you can show and display. Software from Ducati is "average".

Starlane - athlon #they also have stealth#lower# and Davinci#dash# Athlon price is around $800 I believe - about to have full access to ECU so it can log data. Excellent GPS lap timer, shift lights, etc. Before the ecu connection, you had to wire in K rpm line, and other sensors. Now tapping the ECU makes it simpler. Will have same access as DDA does - and has the ability to add a few extra sensors. Semi-portable in that you can wire two simple harnesses into your bike #power,rpm, etc# and move the display to bike to bike to bike. Digirace software is getting better and probably already better than Ducati/Prosa.

Aim - start getting into some serious Data acq at this level. Excellent support in the US #east and west coast#. Taps into majority of ECU's for bikes, cars and karts. Can expand analog and digital inputs, multiple display options from a simple lap timer, to configurable lap timers, to complex dash units that completely replace oem dash. Evo unit has tri-axial accelerometers and GPS built in. Also has logger dash units that display and log at the same time. Integrates with their smartycam camera system that is heads and shoulders above everything else out there. HD version coming out in a month or two as well. The smartycam - allows you to overlay whatever data the evo is getting from ECU and overlay that onto the video - so you can show rpm, speed, brake pressure #if you have the sensor#, suspension pots #sensor#, temps, etc, etc on the actual track video. Then you can see as you're riding the track - where you braked and how hard on the actual video - when you got on the rpm, how hard, how fast, how long, etc. Everything into the RaceStudio 2 software suite - very good software and significant improvement over previous mentioned.

Motec, Pi/Cosworth, MM - all grouped together as these are the race team stuff. You are looking at 5 figures to the sky for most of these. They generally replace the ECU and give you a nice bundle wire harness and you're responble for wiring the bike together AND programming the ECU. Sounds difficult, but most bike/ecu programmers can do the basic stuff in their sleep. It's that final 2% that makes the difference between winning and rest of the field that takes the real genius. They have video recorders that sync and just about anything else you want - but it isn't very end user friendly. The size of the boxes are also a challenge. .. Software is generally free #or very low cost# because they know its useless without their hardware. i2 from Motec is top notch.

Thats about it in a nutshell. As DimST mentioned, Starlane is creeping into the bigger fish territory. If you aren't doing consolidated video - then that platform is a serious contender as it has easy ECU connection data now and very motorcycle functional mini-dash/lap timers. If you want video sync that is easier than using a 3rd party software#eg race render, trackvision, etc# to match the exported starlane #or other# gps data with some track video #like hero, contour, etc# - then the aim stuff with their smartycam wins hands down. Not cheap though as smartycam by itself is 1k

Click to expand...

Thanks you so much - this should certainly be a sticky. Being a software developer more than a track addict, I want to get one of these to paly around with, plus I lving knowing any data possible about the vehicle I am driving/riding. Example, attached is my Wintec dashboard for my 911 with Electromtive system.

As mentioned - something like the video accomplishes what I want/need to work on. If you're at racer level - then you'll want to go into the software where they do advanced analysis with your split times, what you're doing where on the track and where you can go faster to improve your results. I mean, they can compare against other riders if you have their data, or show you in colors - where you had top splits on this lap, but screwed up on the splits here - etc. . it's some pretty heady stuff. . .

Re: sticky, ha, last time I mentioned data logging dashes, a couple of people started yawning. Besides, I think the sticky's reserved for like how to search to not piss off some older folk here, or where to get the best deal on such and such .