Downshifting with the DQS?

Right, some advice please... Can you use the DQS to down shift as well asup shift?

I have been able to down shift with it, but am wondering if you are suppose to and if it may damage it or bike at all... Thanks

You should not downshift without using the clutch, you might get it to snick in cleanly by luck but it's not designed to be done that way. The DQS only cuts the ignition on the upshift.

jarelj said:

You should not downshift without using the clutch, you might get it to snick in cleanly by luck but it's not designed to be done that way. The DQS only cuts the ignition on the upshift.

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Can you please elaborate some more on this?
Is this a mechanical thing?

Quadrupool said:

Can you please elaborate some more on this?
Is this a mechanical thing?

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Definitely cannot use the DQS to downshift. The concept of the DQS is this:

When you are on the throttle, the engine is putting pressure on the transmission, which in turn is translating it to the wheel to move you forward. When the trans has stress on it, it's difficult/impossible to pull out of a gear and move into another. Thus why we have a clutch, to relieve the pressure on the trans. The DQS cuts the throttle at the moment you push the shifter just long enough to relieve that stress and allow the trans to switch gears.

Downshifting is different yet the same. Obviously you are not on the throttle, but the engine is still putting stress on the trans by way of resistance. The engine wants to slow down and you are forcing it to go faster by switching into a lower gear. It is very possibly and mechanically safe to switch into a lower gear without using the clutch. If you are on the throttle, the moment you let off of it, you can click down into a lower gear, because at that moment is when the change of forces happens between the engine and trans (i.e. engine pushing trans verses trans pushing engine). It's also possible, when you are slowing down to blip the throttle just the tiniest amount (again creating this change in forces) and click down into a lower gear at the exact same time. This is harder and probably not as healthy for your trans unless you get really good at it (it took me a while on my last bike, but I got really good at it).

In reality, the absolutely best way and practice is to use the clutch, blip the throttle, and drop down a gear. This will give you the lowest risk of damaging anything, as well as stabilize the rear tire, especially if you are pushing it on a track. It's a very good skill to develop and I highly suggest you practice it while coming to stops.

You can still downshift the other two ways if you like. Chances are you won't really damage anything unless you are just horrible at it and do it wrong constantly.

You /can/ downshift without using the clutch. A /lot/ of race guys do it. They also do it while the engine isn't 'loaded' (under heavy throttle). Is it good for the engine ? Probably not. How hard is it on the engine ? anyone's guess. Some people claim its not any worse if you don't down shift under load - something to do with the clutch plates and slipping them in with the clutch vs just putting it in. It seems to go against conventional logic but I certainly don't know definitively either way.

Either way - if you do down shift without the clutch, it /can/ be done. It is /not/ using the DQS as the DQS actually cuts power/ignition when the shift is done. This does not happen with downshifting without the clutch.

Great guys thanks for the replies and input.. Makes total sense DQS for up shifting and the DQS has nothing to do with downshifting, I clearly am able to do it anyway when the engine isn't loaded. And I probably agree, prob not good for the clutch/engine.

I can't use the blinking clutch anyway it needs bleeding, the lever is on the fullest extension and it doesn't engage with the lever fully pressed against the handlebar, can't get it into neutral! Had this before got the fluid bled and was great after... The liquid is quite dark tho, not ideal to have to keep bleeding the fluid!

mat1529 said:

Great guys thanks for the replays and input.. Makes total sense DQS for up shifting and the DQS has nothing to do with downshifting, I clearly am able to do it anyway when the engine isn't loaded. And I probably agree, prob not good for the clutch/engine.

I can't use the blinking clutch anyway it needs bleeding, the lever is on the fullest extension and it doesn't engage with the lever fully pressed against the handlebar, can't get it into neutral! Had this before got the fluid bled and was great after... The liquid is quite dark tho, not ideal to have to keep bleeding the fluid!

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Are you sure it doesn't just need to be adjusted via the knob on the clutch lever??

When I picked my bike up, it was so far adjusted toward the bar, I couldn't disengage the clutch all the way, and so I kept stalling and had a hard time shifting. I just screwed the adjuster out (quite a ways in fact) and now it's fine.

Many of the World Superbikes (and other top race bikes) have power downshifters on them, which act as soft of an "auto-blipper" to match the engine revs to the wheel speed on downshifts automatically when they hit the shift lever. Doing it manually is possible, and I do it once in a while at low speeds (usually when exiting the track) but I won't do it at high engine speeds, too high of a risk of damaging the transmission if you get it wrong.

mat1529 said:

Right, some advice please... Can you use the DQS to down shift as well asup shift?

I have been able to down shift with it, but am wondering if you are suppose to and if it may damage it or bike at all... Thanks

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You should read the manual that comes with the bike.

Wow.
This question terrifies me.
for multiple reasons.

Carry on.

MacaveliMC said:

Are you sure it doesn't just need to be adjusted via the knob on the clutch lever??

When I picked my bike up, it was so far adjusted toward the bar, I couldn't disengage the clutch all the way, and so I kept stalling and had a hard time shifting. I just screwed the adjuster out (quite a ways in fact) and now it's fine.

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Mine's the opposite and the lever is a long way from the bar to the point where a couple of hours on the bike have given me quite a bit of soreness in the wrist and forearm. I tried to adjust the lever back using the knob on the lever but couldn't get it to move and I don't know if it is adjusted all the way out and bound up. I didn't want to force it.

I figure I just need to harden the f*** up.

gillo said:

Mine's the opposite and the lever is a long way from the bar to the point where a couple of hours on the bike have given me quite a bit of soreness in the wrist and forearm. I tried to adjust the lever back using the knob on the lever but couldn't get it to move and I don't know if it is adjusted all the way out and bound up. I didn't want to force it.

I figure I just need to harden the f*** up.

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push the lever outwards to take the pressure off the knob. Then you can turn the knob.

bradp51 said:

push the lever outwards to take the pressure off the knob. Then you can turn the knob.

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Doh! I was trying to work out if there was a way to take pressure of the knob but didn't think about pushing the lever out. I'll give it a go.

MacaveliMC said:

Are you sure it doesn't just need to be adjusted via the knob on the clutch lever??

When I picked my bike up, it was so far adjusted toward the bar, I couldn't disengage the clutch all the way, and so I kept stalling and had a hard time shifting. I just screwed the adjuster out (quite a ways in fact) and now it's fine.

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No tried all that, trust me, it's as far out as will go, is same prob I had before.

bradp51 said:

You should read the manual that comes with the bike.

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Yep good point, however I'm guessing that this isn't covered in the manual, and as for the advice I am after, and considering the manual says it should be in flat mode on the suspension, I'm thinking the manual wont supply the info.

As for time, well I guess I'd rather be riding in the very limited time I have to do that, as opposed to digging the manual out, hence I put it on here for someone knowledgable to answer for others benefit too, but thank you so much for your in depth really helpful answer! Ha