Ducati 1299 Slow in races

Hello All

I have an few question about the up-maps and setting up of the 1299 for purely track racing. We have an 2015 model, Base model with Akropovic slip on.
At the moment when we are racing the Ducati 1299 will lose 1 second per lap on the front group. We are useally 4th place in the Thunderbike Series race with the Kawasaki zx10 and 3-5 seconds form the front group in an 10 lap race. With the Ducati we are also 4th but 8-10 seconds behind the front 3.

I would like to know how we can improve with the Ducati in making up these few seconds that we are losing out on. It seems that the Ducati is very slow in the corners.Going into corners is good, but going out are slow. We are using Dunlop SC1 Pro 4 tyres.

The bike is showing "Racing". This is from the up-map with the Akra slip-on system. I have read that the TUNEBOY maps are more or less the same as the "RACING EVO" maps. Tuneboy also states the the throttle only delivers 70% in 1,2,3, gear with the normal map on the ECU. This is my first concern with racing the Ducati, but great for road users.

We are riding it with all the Ducati functions OFF and EBC on 2


My questions is :
1. With RACING mapping, is the throttle still only giving 70% in 1,2,3 gear.
2. If so, what is the use of wheelie control when switched OFF
3. Will only the TUNEBOY fix this throttle limit or not?
4. Does Ducati have an up-map purely for Track Racing or not?

Diesel

Twist the throttle more.

1. My understanding is that it's still limited with the UPMAP.
2. None, it's turned off.
3. Yes, you can select full power maps with different throttle response.
4. The UPMAP is designed as a best guess fuelling for your configuration. Subsequent dyno tuning has shown the UPMAP can be improved significantly.

For the track you might want to consider the Rapidbike setup, or Tuneboy & get a custom tune created for the bike. Also get rid of the flapper valve or wire lock it open.

I have no idea what your skill level is, but a few seconds a lap when racing at an amateur level is almost always more the rider than the bike. I raced for a few years back in the day. I outran a lot of faster bikes, and I had slower bikes outrun me. Very few amateurs are going to benefit from improvements to a bike already as capable as the 1299.

Again, not knowing your skill level I don't mean any offense. You may be the exception.

Hello Jim

I dont think it is the skill level, maybe just an skill that we have to get used to the 1299 functionality at this stage. We are the only team driving with the Ducati and we are not using the DTC, DWC, ASB on the bike. On the ZX10 we are doing fine and driving in Class A, but with the Ducati we are in class B and always finishing 1st in the class with about 4-8 second in front of the 2nd place riders. We would like to be competitive in Class A, but the Ducati is just to slow. I think the fact that we are on our own, makes it more difficult. The 70% power issue is worrying. We just don't know how true the facts is.

SPJ said:

1. My understanding is that it's still limited with the UPMAP.
2. None, it's turned off.
3. Yes, you can select full power maps with different throttle response.
4. The UPMAP is designed as a best guess fuelling for your configuration. Subsequent dyno tuning has shown the UPMAP can be improved significantly.

For the track you might want to consider the Rapidbike setup, or Tuneboy & get a custom tune created for the bike. Also get rid of the flapper valve or wire lock it open.

Click to expand...

Hello SPJ and all other

Question :

Is the 70% limitation being used as an "fuel saver" or to help prevent the bike from flipping over or wheeling?
And does it also then limit the speed in which the bike accelerates?


Diesel

What country was the bike sent to originally?

Contact Ducati Seattle. I can't recall the name of the guy I met there, but he removed the power limiter completely. Promptly snapped a chain at the track as proof. There is a way to hack the ECU and they figured it out a couple years ago.

We are in South Africa, so i think it will be an direct import from Europe

Diesel737 said:

Hello SPJ and all other

Question :

Is the 70% limitation being used as an "fuel saver" or to help prevent the bike from flipping over or wheeling?
And does it also then limit the speed in which the bike accelerates?


Diesel

Click to expand...

Not an expert on this, I can only quote what others have written, Tuneboy posted the following when he released the 1299 software.

'In 1st gear the 1299S hits 87% throttle at 6500RPM then drops back to 70% throttle. In second it drops back to 75% throttle.'

And when talking about Tuneboy software

'One feature is the throttle map switching, this adds two extra power modes.
The standard 1299 maps have restricted throttle opening in the first few gears.
The TuneBoy map adds two unrestricted throttle tables.
The first of these alternate throttle tables has full throttle available in all gears.
The second alternate provides a more aggressive power delivery, this throttle map stops the torque from falling off as RPM increases.'

I don't know why Ducati limited it in the first few gears but I imagine it was safety related. If I'm honest I doubt you'd notice any difference in lap time or acceleration with the different modes. Where you would benefit is cleaning up the mid range fuelling. The 1299 with Akra slips and UPMAP had really poor fuelling, they were able to fill in a massive hole in the curve, from memory it was over 20bhp.

you are wheelie limited in 1st, 2nd and 3rd anyways, so the throttle reduction in those gears aren't the problem. I'm running tuneboy now and using the linear throttle map, but I suspect I'll be slower than I was last year, at least initially. The 1299 should outrun just about anything on a trackday/stock race, even with the stock wheels, tires and exhaust. The only ones I couldn't outrun last year was the semi pro racers in the corners, and the ZZR1400/ZX14Rs on the straights. The 1299 is a very capable machine, if you let it live a little. I'm seriously doubting you're faster with DTC/DWC switched off... It's a lot of power in a light bike...

TurboLag said:

you are wheelie limited in 1st, 2nd and 3rd anyways, so the throttle reduction in those gears aren't the problem. I'm running tuneboy now and using the linear throttle map, but I suspect I'll be slower than I was last year, at least initially. The 1299 should outrun just about anything on a trackday/stock race, even with the stock wheels, tires and exhaust. The only ones I couldn't outrun last year was the semi pro racers in the corners, and the ZZR1400/ZX14Rs on the straights. The 1299 is a very capable machine, if you let it live a little. I'm seriously doubting you're faster with DTC/DWC switched off... It's a lot of power in a light bike...

Click to expand...

I was going to say something similar. Turn the electronics back on and you should be faster. You should be able to carry massive amounts of corner speed.

Try running with TC set at 2, DWC set at 2, ABS set at 1 and set the suspension up correctly and try hardest in rear and harder in front. A RapidBike module, or if you have the time and expertise try Tuneboy. Also, disconnect the flapper valve in the exhaust if you haven't already.

The 1299 carries MASSIVE corner speed and if you aren't getting a good exit, you have a setup problem, since this bike LEAPS off the corner exit.

Also, try running the Pirelli WSBK slicks use the Sc 2.5, YES 2.5... not SC2 on the rear and I guarantee you will go faster.

Just my 2c.

Honestly . Great tips but I don't think any of this is really going to benefit .
This is just basic stuff and the OP needs a coach not internet advice .

Ljuice26 said:

I was going to say something similar. Turn the electronics back on and you should be faster. You should be able to carry massive amounts of corner speed.

Click to expand...

I went new school . I run my WC on 4 my DTC on 4 . The bike makes enough power I just need to ride it better . If a 600 can turn in better times than me I can improve and it's not more power I need .

wilkson said:

Honestly . Great tips but I don't think any of this is really going to benefit .
This is just basic stuff and the OP needs a coach not internet advice .

Click to expand...

And here's the truth...

I've done plenty of track days and about to buy an R3 plus private lessons so I can learn how to ride fast.

Diesel737 said:

Hello Jim

I dont think it is the skill level, maybe just an skill that we have to get used to the 1299 functionality at this stage. We are the only team driving with the Ducati and we are not using the DTC, DWC, ASB on the bike. On the ZX10 we are doing fine and driving in Class A, but with the Ducati we are in class B and always finishing 1st in the class with about 4-8 second in front of the 2nd place riders. We would like to be competitive in Class A, but the Ducati is just to slow. I think the fact that we are on our own, makes it more difficult. The 70% power issue is worrying. We just don't know how true the facts is.

Click to expand...

Good luck getting it sorted out.

Thank you all for in information. I don't think its an driver problem, since we are just running mostly 5 seconds slower than the sponsored pro riders. We have been riding for 8 years now on superbikes and started on 125cc with an trainer. I would say we are top semi pro's.
Getting to know an bike with limited support from the supplier is very difficult. We would definitely follow all the advice given here thanks.

I think one thing that we must do is an Tuneboy mapping for the Throttle in lower gears. On the straights the Ducati is very fast. We have seen that from an start we will outrun the 4 or 5 bikes infront of us on the grid, going into the first corner in front of the pack. Then after the first 3-4 corners, we would go back to 4 place and stay there for the rest of the race.

We are also running racing shocks in back and front, and they are set hard


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Diesel737 said:

Thank you all for in information. I don't think its an driver problem, since we are just running mostly 5 seconds slower than the sponsored pro riders. We have been riding for 8 years now on superbikes and started on 125cc with an trainer. I would say we are top semi pro's.
Getting to know an bike with limited support from the supplier is very difficult. We would definitely follow all the advice given here thanks.

I think one thing that we must do is an Tuneboy mapping for the Throttle in lower gears. On the straights the Ducati is very fast. We have seen that from an start we will outrun the 4 or 5 bikes infront of us on the grid, going into the first corner in front of the pack. Then after the first 3-4 corners, we would go back to 4 place and stay there for the rest of the race.

We are also running racing shocks in back and front, and they are set hard


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

They are set on hard ? That may be a issue .

wilkson said:

They are set on hard ? That may be a issue .

Click to expand...

Haha ok just harder than normal shock, but we set them up different every race to adjust to track conditions