? Extra ring added to pistons ?

Anyone else hear about an extra ring added to the pistons on 2013 models? I heard it from a reliable person, just haven't heard it elsewhere.....

Not heard anything but has made me realise even from brand new I've never had the blue smoke start up that I've read about on here and now got 1600 miles on the bike so would have thought I'd have seen something if it was going to happen?

Oh and it has stood for 10 days between starts once, normally just between weekends though.

Yes they made changes to the piston rings for the 2013 models to eliminate the smoke problem. Guess all 2012 model owners should get that then also, shouldn't they?

I heard that they were not going to retro fit the 2012 models. Only 2013 models will get the added rings. I'm not sure the " why " for doing it. If it is important to include it, why not do the 2012 models also!

If I remember correctly, Ducati are not officially saying that there is a smoking problem. So this is just an upgrade / modification to the 2013 model. I would imagine that some tail end / end of year run 2012 models would get the updated pistons.

ShiftTechCarbon said:

Yes they made changes to the piston rings for the 2013 models to eliminate the smoke problem. Guess all 2012 model owners should get that then also, shouldn't they?

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I seriously doubt it.

That would be one mother of a recall

For dealers to essentially dismantle every 2012 bike, remove and strip the engine and replace the pistons

They would screw the dealers down on warranty work labour allowance and generally cause a .... storm.

Personally, I wouldn't want that anyway, unless my engine smoked like a ...... ..... in which case I'd just want a new bike.

Actually, please could one of our resident mechanical gurus comment on the pro's and con's of adding another ring.

Surely it can't eradicate the issue, maybe just alleviate?

My bike has never smoked...Its in the #3000 range... I am wondering if this change actually took place during production on the 2012 bikes and Ducati never mentioned it??? Is it the early bikes that smoked???

No it was more random than that. My Tri was one of the first delivered in Europe and only really smoked once, with a little puff here and there since.

My Tri still smokes after 1400, getting a bit pissed.

Denver Rick said:

My Tri still smokes after 1400, getting a bit pissed.

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Only a bit???? I would be very pissed off...

Denver Rick said:

My Tri still smokes after 1400, getting a bit pissed.

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Same for my S.

I always make sure I'm sitting on the bike looking forward when starting the engine......never seen any smoke

Jokes aside; more rings is more friction, more friction is more heat, more wear and less power. Since this is a "cold engine issue" only, I wouldn't loose a minute of sleep over it. On top of that, engine failures seem to be scarce and very few forum members have complained about badly running motors.

Cheers

Mine still smokes at 3500 miles. Its a very early S model, possibly the first in the road in the UK. However, I've worked out the exact circumstances under which it happens...

If you start the bike and run it for a short while, not long enough for it to fully warm the engine before stopping it again, then the bike will smoke on the next start. Try it if you have a 2012 model.

My guess is that oil seaps past the rings when the bike is stopped before the large pistons have fully expanded to seal the bores, as they do at normal operating temprature.

I guess adding another ring would help with this, but its not a problem in normal operation, other than getting my leg pulled by other non-Ducati owners who just love to point out Ducati faults.

I'm with Xbox, no way would I want the engine rebuilt on a dealers bench to cure a minor irratation. If it starts drinking oil big time, then I'll have a new engine please. That's what my warranty is for.

PaddockStand said:

Mine still smokes at 3500 miles. Its a very early S model, possibly the first in the road in the UK. However, I've worked out the exact circumstances under which it happens...

If you start the bike and run it for a short while, not long enough for it to fully warm the engine before stopping it again, then the bike will smoke on the next start. Try it if you have a 2012 model.

My guess is that oil seaps past the rings when the bike is stopped before the large pistons have fully expanded to seal the bores, as they do at normal operating temprature.

I guess adding another ring would help with this, but its not a problem in normal operation, other than getting my leg pulled by other non-Ducati owners who just love to point out Ducati faults.

I'm with Xbox, no way would I want the engine rebuilt on a dealers bench to cure a minor irratation. If it starts drinking oil big time, then I'll have a new engine please. That's what my warranty is for.

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OMG, this happened to me! I ran it to get it uphill for my last (I thought) winter picture, then when I started it to put it away, it smoked! Brief puff as you say. It is an extremely rare occurance, so I just ignore it.

Mine smoked when bran new. Now with 2500 on the clock it doesn't. One time after sitting for 7 or 10 days it smoked on start up but that's it.

PaddockStand said:

Mine still smokes at 3500 miles. Its a very early S model, possibly the first in the road in the UK. However, I've worked out the exact circumstances under which it happens...

If you start the bike and run it for a short while, not long enough for it to fully warm the engine before stopping it again, then the bike will smoke on the next start. Try it if you have a 2012 model.

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Exactly. I mentioned this previously, you can make it puff by running the engine, without riding.... like when your showing off in the garage for friends.

I think this is why Ducati came out with the start and ride ride-off immediately recommendation. The quicker you get the temp up, the quicker the rings will expand.

I am part of a team that design's engines. I would not want my engine taken apart and a ring added. It would mean lots of reassembly risks. We also remanufacture engines and always when remanufacturing we would have the bores reworked and have all new piston rings. I read someone say its a cold only issue so I am not planning to disturb my engine to solve this minor item

My 1199 only smoked twice at start up, but after it's first 55 lap track day it never smoked again.

The True Story

Hot off the press!
This was straight from my "nameless source" at Ducati after sending him this link. Hope it clears up some of the confusion?

Incorrect. 2013 did not add an additional ring but a new ring. 12120561A is for 2012. 12120561B if for 2013. They will cut in faster so people stop whining about the smoking. All that is needed is to run the .... out the bike and it's broken in!

Rings produce no drag on compression because the gases are trying to push past the seal. Blow by, and it's the reason to gas port a piston so the pressure on the head of the piston with match that behind the ring helping to make a better seal. Porting is not affective long term because the ports get full of debris from combustion and plug causing an unbalanced condition or cocking of the piston in its' stroke causing the skirt to drag. Skirt drag kills HP.

Rings only touch on down suck stroke and in that stroke the throttle is closed it creates a vacuum which causes the rings to pull out and drag the wall of the cylinder. It's why the worth thing you can do to the engine is very high rpm and part to no throttle. That vacuum can be so large that it can suck oil past the valve stem and burn. And it's the reason on the dyno you can determine easily if you have a bad ring set or bad valve stem seal causing your smoking. Full throttle smoking, rings. Full throttle then shut off throttle smoking valve stem seal.