Front forks 'springy'

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WAfatboy

WAfatboy

Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
1,293
Location
Perth, Western Australia
I've had the sag checked on my front forks and it seems right but my tech noted how 'springy' the forks were. I've wound off the pre-load (turning the large nut on the top of the forks clockwise by about. 8 full turns). I've used DES to firm up the front further. After all this I still find there's too much dive under braking.

Has anyone done anything to their forks who hast this issue? I'm thinking it could,be springs or even the weight or amount of fluid?

Any suggestions gratefully received.
 
Maybe just a typo but winding the preload "off" would need to be counter-clockwise. If you are all the way in that would likely be way too stiff. What was your measured rider sag before the preload change?
 
Assuming spring rate is right for your weight and sag/preload is right, excessive dive under braking tells me 1)Not enough compression damping, and 2) coupled with too much rebound damping.

I have the base model. And except for backing off a couple clicks to soften the compression slightly, front end seems fine.
My real trouble has been with rear shock. Spring rate a little low but usable. Can't seem to get rebound rate to where I want it (low speed versus high speed bumps). I'm thinking the shock itself just isn't up to the task.
 
smorey said:
Maybe just a typo but winding the preload "off" would need to be counter-clockwise. If you are all the way in that would likely be way too stiff. What was your measured rider sag before the preload change?
Click to expand...

My bad in describing, I turned the nut clockwise, turned way 'in' but it's ok riding, firm but ok, it's just when braking I find it dives too much.

Can't remember front sag with rider but think it was around 25mm.

I replaced my rear spring with a stiffer version ask couldn't get the right balance either, I'm heavy 110kg without gear.
 
Last edited:
WAfatboy said:
My bad in describing, I turned the nut clockwise, turned way 'in' but it's ok riding, firm but ok, it's just when braking I find it dives too much.

Can't remember front sag with rider but think it was around 25mm.

I replaced my rear spring with a stiffer version ask couldn't get the right balance either, I'm heavy 110kg without gear.
Click to expand...

Get the spring right first. The S model is too stiffly sprung in the rear, a bit too light in the front. Your sag measurements will tell you the story. If the front and rear don't agree you can get a kind of rocking or "hobby horse" effect. I'm 165 lbs. and changed to a softer rear spring whereas the front needs stiffer springs. Good luck!
 
By turning it to the right you are increasing the spring rate. That should equal less front end dive. Try increasing the compression a click or two once sag is set.
 
smorey said:
Get the spring right first. The S model is too stiffly sprung in the rear, a bit too light in the front. Your sag measurements will tell you the story. If the front and rear don't agree you can get a kind of rocking or "hobby horse" effect. I'm 165 lbs. and changed to a softer rear spring whereas the front needs stiffer springs. Good luck!
Click to expand...

What type of spring set up do you run? I am at same weight. :)
 
If you increase front preload too much you will make the bike ride high in the front and it will not handle right.

If you are getting too much front brake dive you can combat that by increasing front compression and increasing the rear rebound. The increased front compression will slow the dive on the compression stroke and the increased rear rebound will slow the rise on the rear suspension which will slow the weight transfer to the front.

I have the S model and I'm 180 without my gear. My front sag is 38MM and rear sag is 30mm. The bike is over sprung in the rear and the ride height was too high in the rear which just made the problem worse. I changed the rear spring and lowered the rear ride height and I'm much happier.
 
I'm also 110kg, but with the base 1199.

I changed my fork preload to maximum to try and combat the diving effect and also the bottoming out of the forks, but with little success. In addition my compression is at 10 out.

The base also seems to give inconsistent sag measurements, but on average I believe my front rider sag is in the 25mm region. I've come to the conclusion that only new springs will be able to improve the situation and have ordered ohlins internals and suited springs...can't wait for it to arrive
 
We did get the front to work on the stock springs and oil
If it dives to much give it more compression
If it springs/rebounds back to much give it way more rebound damping

As stock the rear end is way to stiff and high.

Try this on the front after lowering the rear.

from top down: 30-4-30-6 front preload 8

Alternatively this is from Mct suspension in the uk which I find not to work on rough roads:

Front:
Comp 16
Rebound 7
Preload 12.5 turns in from fully out
Static sag 29mm

Rear:
Comp 10
Rebound 13
Rear spring is an 80nm
Preload 158mm length approx 10mm of showing thread
Static sag 12mm (max possible!!!)
Shock length 318mm
 
Last edited:
Rich22 said:
We did get the front to work on the stock springs and oil
If it dives to much give it more compression
If it springs/rebounds back to much give it way more rebound damping

As stock the rear end is way to stiff and high.

Try this on the front after lowering the rear.

from top down: 30-4-30-6 front preload 8

Alternatively this is from Mct suspension in the uk which I find not to work on rough roads:

Front:
Comp 16
Rebound 7
Preload 12.5 turns in from fully out
Static sag 29mm

Rear:
Comp 10
Rebound 13
Rear spring is an 80nm
Preload 158mm length approx 10mm of showing thread
Static sag 12mm (max possible!!!)
Shock length 318mm
Click to expand...

As always I find myself confused with the DES settings. Is MORE rebound damping or compression a lower number in DES or a higher number?

I did quick run today with these settings after the earlier comments in this thread and it seemed pretty good. I was working on the lower the compression number the harder the ride. I was working on the higher rebound number meaning more (quicker) rebound . (My rear spring is stiffer than stock btw)

FRONT COMP: 10
FRONT REBOUND: 18
REAR COMP: 14
REAR REBOUND: 20
 
Save your settings in race mode.
Then in sport mode still 195hi try this: 30-4-30-6
Switch between the 2 modes its a good way to compare.
Make sure the engine braking is turned off as it affects dive.

From my settings you can work out where the higher number affects as harder or softer simply by pushing down on the front end.

I have a pani in the workshop so will check it to see which way round things work.
 
Last edited:
Rich22 said:
Save your settings in race mode.
Then in sport mode still 195hi try this: 30-4-30-6
Switch between the 2 modes its a good way to compare.
Make sure the engine braking is turned off as it affects dive.

From my settings you can work out where the higher number affects as harder or softer simply by pushing down on the front end.

I have a pani in the workshop so will check it to see which way round things work.
Click to expand...

So just for clarity is this it?

front compression 30
Front rebound 4
Rear compression 30
Front rebound 6

Have EBC off.
 
Rich do you have a recommended setting for the base model? I think my suspension is acting differently because I get a jolt going over bumps.
 
hawaiiduc said:
By turning it to the right you are increasing the spring rate. That should equal less front end dive. Try increasing the compression a click or two once sag is set.
Click to expand...
It only changes sag. The only way to change rate is to change springs!
 

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