Head shake tank slapper on track

Took the panigale R out on mosport yesterday. Bike was working very well everywhere except out of 5a ( hard acceleration from low speed on to long straight) bike would weave badly and I would have to back off a bit until it got into the higher gears. Stability was good everywhere except here.
After 2 sessions I cranked the steering dampener up all the way and it made the bike way worse, I got a high speed wobble at over 250kmh and when turning into turn 3 the bike tried to buck me off.
I thought the rear shock might be getting hotter and squatting more.But after asking other fast panigale riders at the track they said it was because I turned up the steering dampener. At that point I had packed up so I didn't get a chance to test that theory. Is it true that this happens when you turn up the dampener on this bike?
For reference I have race experience and have won a 250gp at this track so can go at a good pace

I was getting that with mine as well and actually softened up the compression on the rear shock to get it to go away. I threw a couple clicks into the steering damper, but not much. Have you set the sag?

Raise the front end 3mm

Sonnythebull said:

Took the panigale R out on mosport yesterday. Bike was working very well everywhere except out of 5a ( hard acceleration from low speed on to long straight) bike would weave badly and I would have to back off a bit until it got into the higher gears. Stability was good everywhere except here.
After 2 sessions I cranked the steering dampener up all the way and it made the bike way worse, I got a high speed wobble at over 250kmh and when turning into turn 3 the bike tried to buck me off.
I thought the rear shock might be getting hotter and squatting more.But after asking other fast panigale riders at the track they said it was because I turned up the steering dampener. At that point I had packed up so I didn't get a chance to test that theory. Is it true that this happens when you turn up the dampener on this bike?
For reference I have race experience and have won a 250gp at this track so can go at a good pace

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Funny enough I dialed up my steering damper today and noticed the same wobble you were getting at similar speeds. Not the results I was expecting.

I experienced weave at speeds over 155 on the S (street) and on the back straight at COTA on the R around the same speeds. Turning up the steering damper makes the weave worse. The Panigale is extremely sensitive to both the rider weight and rider style. Getting it set up properly by someone who knows what they're doing (maybe the suspension guy who set you up to win a 250gp--or just the local suspension guy at the track) is all you need.

Just keep it pinned and it will settle when the wheel comes back down heh Thats what I did for turn 12 at Philip Island, you just get used to it lol Adjusting your steering damper will help a bit but ultimately you need your suspension setup correctly. I chewed through a set of tires in 2 sessions last week then I released the rear needed to be jacked up (8mm worked) and stiffened up (your settings will depend on you and your bike (Ducati race team happened to be there on the day and they helped me out was great) - you need to do this with someone who knows suspension (not the internet ) after that tires wore evenly and less head shake but still wheeling out of turn 12 but that doesnt bother me (watch Tom Sykes in the last wsbk race - awesome!)

Thanks for all the feedback. I had set up the suspension myself but obviously not good enough. I'm getting a proper suspension guy to do it this week.
The head shake was not minor in the last session it almost threw me off the bike. Minor weaves and bobbles aren't a problem but when I'm almost out of the seat I can't ride thru that every lap!
Thanks again

Wobble or tank slap when leaned over then dip or bump on track.. had this issue, I had steer damper at max less 3 clicks (about what all my other bikes would be at as far as firmness) which gave me full on wobble tank slap at 180 kph., violent and very nearly tossed me right off the bike several times but luckily the worst only sent me in the grass off track until I figured out the issue.., set to max less 6 clicks., problem solved.. of course that was after 2 months of setting the suspension and testing every possible combination., ride height comp rebound etc etc.. all little effect... I was set to trade it for an aprillia.., but it works awesome now.. This panigale is very sensitive to this damper.., unlike most every other bike I've owned.. so max less 6 worked for me.., or looser imo..

more testing.. the previous post info worked well on a smooth track.., when on a fairly bumpy track, still have wobble coming out of corners.. next im trying a 85nm spring rr.. im 175 plus gear.. ill post how that works..

I notice a wobble on my 899 under hard acceleration about over 100 mph. I notice that instead of pulling the handlebars (trying to hold on), the wobble will go away if you PUSH on the handle bars.

Try that...


but one of the comments above sounds really good. To raise the front end... It seems like the tire just isn't in contact with the ground enough, so possibly raising the front may help...

high speed weave has been reported by several 1199 riders. I'm curious if the 1299 geometry changes have dialed that out. I've only gotten one head shake, and I thoroughly deserved it - I pinned the throttle in 2nd and did not have my legs locked in - meaning I ended up gripping the bars with a death grip. I've got my riding position dialed in now, believe you me.

As far as I can remember the reason for the winglets or fairing extenders on the 1199 was to eliminate the high speed weave? Did the guys experiencing the weave have theirs fitted?

I've had head shakes, but I think that is down to too much rebound damping in the forks. Will try a few things this thursday Thursday next week I'm getting an experienced racer to try the bike, so I'll get proper feedback on it then

I'm not getting head shakes. I have the winglets installed and my sag has been set. I believe my damper is dialed in halfway.

Update: Had time for a spirited ride, minor suspension tweaks did the trick One up on compression front and rear (rear was the relevant one, did both since I'm bottoming out on track), one back on fork rebound. All wiggles gone

No expert but just some observations:
- it seems you had a light front end which causes the steering to woble with the slightest bump.
- winglets probably provide aerodynamic donw force at high speed, keeping the front end down.
- rear compression keeps back end up compared to front end on acceleration
- more damping on the steering damper seems to me a bad idea as it is just a way to treat the symptom and not the cause. And it didn't work anyway.
- raising the front end also seems to be a bad idea as it puts the weight bias more to the back.

Makes sense?

IdZer0 said:

No expert but just some observations:
- it seems you had a light front end which causes the steering to woble with the slightest bump.
- winglets probably provide aerodynamic donw force at high speed, keeping the front end down.
- rear compression keeps back end up compared to front end on acceleration
- more damping on the steering damper seems to me a bad idea as it is just a way to treat the symptom and not the cause. And it didn't work anyway.
- raising the front end also seems to be a bad idea as it puts the weight bias more to the back.

Makes sense?

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That was exactly what I was going for. It worked

IdZer0 said:

- more damping on the steering damper seems to me a bad idea as it is just a way to treat the symptom and not the cause. And it didn't work anyway.

Makes sense?

Click to expand...

Sort suspension first. Steering damping only after suspension is sorted. And if you're getting headshake your suspension isn't sorted.

Claymore said:

As far as I can remember the reason for the winglets or fairing extenders on the 1199 was to eliminate the high speed weave? Did the guys experiencing the weave have theirs fitted?

Click to expand...

In my case, I only started experiencing the weave after installing the fairing extensions on my 1199s.

I experienced the weave on the very first day I took delivery of my bike, first ride out, fairing extensions not installed, steering damper set in the middle (max hard minus 10 clicks - just like I had my previous 1198s steering damper set), encountered some head shake, turned the steering damper 3 clicks harder, and never experienced the weave again until last month when I installed the fairing extensions.

Tfk said:

In my case, I only started experiencing the weave after installing the fairing extensions on my 1199s.

I experienced the weave on the very first day I took delivery of my bike, first ride out, fairing extensions not installed, steering damper set in the middle (max hard minus 10 clicks - just like I had my previous 1198s steering damper set), encountered some head shake, turned the steering damper 3 clicks harder, and never experienced the weave again until last month when I installed the fairing extensions.

Click to expand...

Try 1 click out on fork rebound, see if it helps. If not, reset and try 1 click in on rear shock compression. Head shake on corner exit is usually caused by the bike attitude going nose up and the front wheel going too light. Could be a different cause aswell, but that's the most common cause.

I know the OP has alot of experience, so this is just a generic comment on the subject.

Headshake will be more prevalent on a bike that is so light, and spend so much time with the front wheel barely touching the ground. But with that being said, the fix is definitely in the suspension/geometry. The damper is just a backup. Most people use a damper as a bandaid for poor setup.

Something to REALLY keep in mind...

Headshake can push the brake pads back into the calipers. Which means when you reach your braking zone and grab the brakes, the lever will go all the way back to the bars and you wont have anything. It will take 2-3 pumps to return the pad into position against the rotors.

And if you are running a good pace, which means braking at the last possible moment, that can easily send you off the track. There has been more than one career ended because of that exact scenario. There are a few places i race at that have crests and i always get headshake. Before i reach the braking zone, i always reach up with one finger and do a slight pump for a brake check to make sure i have brakes.

Always keep that in mind when you get bad headshake. Make sure you check your brakes before you get way too deep into the braking zone (or go to the brakes a little earlier to be safe).