lean surging

Hey Ducatisti,

i search the easiest and cheapest (reversible) method, to get the lean surging away
remapping is the most costfull one

I found oxigen sensor eleminators, in an adjustable version
Can anyone tell if this works???

I drive mostly on country roads, in high gear, with low rpm and little gas
With the AFR Lamda 1 you can accelerate from idle very smooth, free of lean surging -
thats the target

greetings Panimike

I found adding the sprint 08 air filter helped (closed loop, stock map, stock exhaust). Not perfect, but perceptibly better. 3rd gear @ 3500 rpm w/stock gearing puts you around 45mph (72kph).

Tuneboy isn't THAT expensive, and it's a far better option than any band-aid solution

Tuneboy is worth it for the cruise control alone.

Do you gents consider RapidBike a "band aid?" If so please explain..

Prince Albert said:

Do you gents consider RapidBike a "band aid?" If so please explain..

Click to expand...

I would because its a piggyback solution that addresses the fueling problem by masking the shortcomings of the stock ECU vs directly addressing the base map. Ostensibly (based on reviews here) it does a good job but at the expense of introducing another point of failure and alot of connections. Ultimately this could introduce reliability issues. Troubleshooting this type of system is going to be substantially more difficult than one that fixes the issue directly (like remapping).

.. a most interesting of synopsis's..

Slowdive2 said:

I would because its a piggyback solution that addresses the fueling problem by masking the shortcomings of the stock ECU vs directly addressing the base map. Ostensibly (based on reviews here) it does a good job but at the expense of introducing another point of failure and alot of connections. Ultimately this could introduce reliability issues. Troubleshooting this type of system is going to be substantially more difficult than one that fixes the issue directly (like remapping).

Click to expand...

I'm one of the unlucky ones that got a bike that REALLY ran crappy below 5k rpm. I first tired to get some adjustments done by the dealer but to no avail. Then in desperation I purchased the Akropovic slip ons with the official Ducati 1299 up Mapp. (Another $3500 )
Other than showing a "racing Evo" sign on the dash when you first fire it up there was no real difference in low end throttle performance. Still surged still bucked and kicked below 4500 rpm. Still required me to be in 2nd gear to just ride at 45mph without it surging and lunging etc. Well, After bringing it back many times with no real difference they tried a remap of the ECU. That did help some however it still ran real lean (on the low to midrange )and ran VERY hot! So, after I had over $29k and it still ran like crap
I finally spent more money and got the RapidBike Racing module and a new Sprint air filter. Now THAT MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!! WOW. Now it ours at 3200 rpm and even runs at 45 mph in 4th gear if I wish with none of the surging issues. It is also much stronger in the mid and top end rpm

Finally ...Now the bike really runs the way it should have in the first place. Now it is the Beast that everyone describes. So bottom line. If you got one of "those bikes" that just don't run well on lower rpm then don't waste your time on "re maps" of the factory ECU. Because it is just a big guess for what your bike actually needs and at best it is just a partial fix and a compromise. The RapidBike or the TuneBoy units will self map downstream from the factory ECU and can be removed for warranty work (and you will not lose your factory warranty because you tampered with the factory ECU settings) By the way. My dealer was told by a Ducati Factory rep (that rode my bike about another issue with it having a sticking throttle).That by remapping the ECU that they had voided my warranty.!!!
Be careful what you do. My dealer will have to purchase another ECU to get my warranty back. The dealer has been great trying all they could to help

Don't let anyone tell you that "they just all run that way." This bike just needs aftermarket help with its fuel injection because
the Factory literally neuters' the fuel injection to get it to pass with the EPA regulations
Even the best dealers cannot do what is necessary to really get it running right . In my case I think the factory rep just used that as an excuse to not have to deal with fixing my other throttle sticking issue. The fact that the bike has had the problem from day one doesn't seem to matter to him. Once he heard they had tried to fix it by remapping he immediately used that as an excuse .

Oh well. It is still such a fine machine and will be again soon .

Speedy

I didn't say it was a bad design or it doesn't make sense to use it...I'm just saying IMO it is a "band aid".

I concur that one advantage of a system like this is that it's easy to reverse (in theory).
A custom tune would probably be the better option to one of the precanned "upmaps". A map could be created and flashed to the ECU that would have the same net effect as the RapidBike.

BTW I have a PCIII on my GT, its a "bandaid" too...but it works, its reversible, and there is no chance of bricking my ECU so it does have it's advantages.

Prince Albert said:

Do you gents consider RapidBike a "band aid?" If so please explain..

Click to expand...

This is a gray area for me.You aren't fixing the source problem, but applying something that makes the problem loose most of the impact it has. But on the other hand, the issue can be properly fixed as you can give the engine a properly adjusted map.

A fixed adjustable voltage source in place of the O2 sensor on the other hand is most definately a crap band aid solution.

The funny thing is that a lot of people were criticising DP Akra+upmap price. I had it done prior ever picking up the bike.

And I haven't got any issues how it runs from idle, heat, stalling, flapper valve, charcoal canister etc. It is perfect. After reading all these posts, people running in dyno, installing 1k$ PC/RB/TB-modules PLUS slipons, DP Akra is not so expensive at all.

Pure pleasure from the day 1.

I'm sorry, but it amazes me that you're all talking about solutions for a 'problem' with this bike at low revs/slow speeds.

Are you serious? There is no problem. It's a 205 bhp super bike! It's not meant to be handled like a baby everywhere it goes.

Get over it and live with that fact or get a moped!

Raaseri said:

The funny thing is that a lot of people were criticising DP Akra+upmap price. I had it done prior ever picking up the bike.

And I haven't got any issues how it runs from idle, heat, stalling, flapper valve, charcoal canister etc. It is perfect. After reading all these posts, people running in dyno, installing 1k$ PC/RB/TB-modules PLUS slipons, DP Akra is not so expensive at all.

Pure pleasure from the day 1.

Click to expand...

The DP exhaust price sucks because a DP logo and upmap added like 1k to the price of the slip-ons and 1.5k to the price of the full system. At the original prices you could have had the system and fueling taken care of via a customizable solution with money left over.

There's no defending the DP price. Hard to defend the original Akra price but the DP price made it outlandish.

Mutt1979 said:

I'm sorry, but it amazes me that you're all talking about solutions for a 'problem' with this bike at low revs/slow speeds.

Are you serious? There is no problem. It's a 205 bhp super bike! It's not meant to be handled like a baby everywhere it goes.

Get over it and live with that fact or get a moped!

Click to expand...

I made this exact comment in another thread. Still blows me away.

I understand that some people want to ride this bike on the street, but instead of buying a RACE BIKE and then bitching about low RPM throttle response, people should *expect* it to behave poorly at low speeds and low rpms and just factor the "tuning" in as a sunk cost when they buy the bike.

Guys,

I ride my 1299S with the Full Akra from my former 1199 and original mapping, honestly I cannot complain about any bad throttle response or surging at lower rpm's nor at above 7,000 rpm. I added the sprint air filter later this year, since then, the engine feels even more powerful (but that's only my feeling).

Next week, I'll activate the DP OEM mapping for the full Akra, lets see if there is a further improvement in low load behavior or at full throttle.

Anyway, the performance is awesome and sometimes almost scary, combined with a 15/41 final gearing.

Mutt1979 said:

I'm sorry, but it amazes me that you're all talking about solutions for a 'problem' with this bike at low revs/slow speeds.

Are you serious? There is no problem. It's a 205 bhp super bike! It's not meant to be handled like a baby everywhere it goes.

Get over it and live with that fact or get a moped!

Click to expand...

I can see the point. A lot of us bought it as a street bike as it was sold as.
IF people can have a tuner smooth out the whole rev range and make more power everywhere, then why can't we expect the bike to have this from the factory and make everyone happy?

Slow said:

I can see the point. A lot of us bought it as a street bike as it was sold as.
IF people can have a tuner smooth out the whole rev range and make more power everywhere, then why can't we expect the bike to have this from the factory and make everyone happy?

Click to expand...

Right. It's possible to have a bike that is good down low and still every bit a race bike. Actually when people get these bike properly dialed in, they generally are better everywhere in the rev range. These L-twins are they way they are out of the factory to comply with emissions and noise standards.

BTrain5489 said:

The DP exhaust price sucks because a DP logo and upmap added like 1k to the price of the slip-ons and 1.5k to the price of the full system. At the original prices you could have had the system and fueling taken care of via a customizable solution with money left over.

There's no defending the DP price. Hard to defend the original Akra price but the DP price made it outlandish.

Click to expand...

I did not pay anywhere near the asking price. But compared to the trouble some have experienced, I think it was money very well spent. However I do agree that 5k asking price is ridiculous, but if that is needed to sort out this bike, it just might be worth it.

Mutt1979 said:

I'm sorry, but it amazes me that you're all talking about solutions for a 'problem' with this bike at low revs/slow speeds.

Are you serious? There is no problem. It's a 205 bhp super bike! It's not meant to be handled like a baby everywhere it goes.

Get over it and live with that fact or get a moped!

Click to expand...

Agreed.

is there a reason to do 45mph in 3rd or 4rth???????? and need it to be smooth rolling on the gas when you should be in first ?



Ill cruise 2nd and 3rd doing 45, but I know where that shifting lever is to downshift if I need to roll up on the gas.


After doing 700 miles the last 2 days with 150miles over 100mph, 40 rain miles, and in 100f weather, the biggest problem of 45mph is the FKN heat coming off this oven. NOT driving it in the wrong gear.

Awesome bike. It did not disappoint and I'm not near as beat as doing he same trip on the 848.

Slowdive2 said:

I didn't say it was a bad design or it doesn't make sense to use it...I'm just saying IMO it is a "band aid".

I concur that one advantage of a system like this is that it's easy to reverse (in theory).
A custom tune would probably be the better option to one of the precanned "upmaps". A map could be created and flashed to the ECU that would have the same net effect as the RapidBike.

BTW I have a PCIII on my GT, its a "bandaid" too...but it works, its reversible, and there is no chance of bricking my ECU so it does have it's advantages.

Click to expand...

The dealer flashed my ECU and the factory rep told them the warranty was null and void! **The dealer had to spend $1500 to get a new one..
The way it was explained to me the Rapid Bike Racing module sends a signal to the factory ECU telling it that all its preset parameters are within range ( in essence fooling it so it doesn't come back and reset and changes) meanwhile it resets and auto tunes the actual signals to the injectors and timing etc down stream..This is why mine literally transformed to a much smoother running motor (that can run in 4th gear at 45 mph at around 3200 rpm and not be bucking and kicking and surging) This was not possible before... I would have to have it in second gear at almost 5k RPM before it would not surge etc... It is literally night and day the difference it made on my bike.. This is the way the bike should have run in the first place..!
As far as I am concerned I don't see how any specific "Custom" dyno tune can get the bike to run in as many different conditions as well as mine.. Any Custom map will get it running well while in the specific temperature humidity and other factors while it was tuned. But things change and the Rapid Bike is a better option in my opinion for me since from what I have learned it is constantly learning and changing to adapt and fine tuning it as you ride.. Just my theory and I am sure someone will come back with how wrong I am There is always some expert that know everything out there..

All I know is my own experience and how much better my bike runs..

Speedy