Oil leak after first service at 400 miles HELP

Regardless of production location (and the stigmas that may rightfully so have been developed), the strictest of quality standards can be met.

All good points and I stand somewhat corrected.. Good rebuttals guys..

Got word from Ducati today. They say it's a failed mechanical seal on the water pump. This is supposedly a well known defect even on the 1199s and other models. So they will replace it and we will see what happens. Anyone else have had the water pump fail or the mechanical seal fail on the water pump? I will be writing a letter to Ducati stating my concerns for this issue and ask them to invest more time into Researching a better fix for futures vehicles. They need to do something about this... Don't you agree??

They will probably tell you thank you for your time and sorry about your problem, blah, blah, blah. It's a problem but they are too far into the panigale to change manufacturing procedures now.

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread..

Depending on the percentage of failure rates . If it is low they will continue just to fix them .
Getting back to the point of production in Asian countries it usually happens when the factory can no longer handle production for smaller volume products .
The KTM factory can handle 40,000 bikes per year last year they sold 110,000 bikes so other than building a new factory which may not be economical viable in uncertain times production get shipped out .
Ducati are no different and without being able to do this you most likely will not see bikes like the scrambler and smaller capacity monsters . I see no issue with it .

DEDuc1299S said:

Did my first service at 400 miles.

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Help me understand why you completed your first service at 400 miles? I just got my 1299 owners manual and looked up the service recommendations and it states a 600 mile service (as been the norm going back to my first '08 848.)

Just curious why you decided not to have this service performed at the manufactures recommended interval?

Also, what dealer performed this service on your bike?

DEDuc1299S said:

All good points and I stand somewhat corrected.. Good rebuttals guys..

Got word from Ducati today. They say it's a failed mechanical seal on the water pump. This is supposedly a well known defect even on the 1199s and other models. So they will replace it and we will see what happens. Anyone else have had the water pump fail or the mechanical seal fail on the water pump? I will be writing a letter to Ducati stating my concerns for this issue and ask them to invest more time into Researching a better fix for futures vehicles. They need to do something about this... Don't you agree??

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Nope. Nothing Ducati can do about it. Might be better to send the letter to the Italian version of Timken bearings, maybe. (could even be a Timken bearing for all I know LOLz)
Never had a bearing problem with Ducati, but with hundreds of other water pumps on all kinds of engines. It happens. It's just one or two little, fragile seals.

Buliwyf said:

And Ducati uses modern "cafe style" assembly lines now, and they "proof" test the bike pretty thoroughly. The only factories in America that are cleaner and more organized than these guys, are Lockheed, Boeing, and Raytheon. Car and bike factories aren't even close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUFDelbUdnI

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I found the root of the problem within seconds of that video...






...the engine was built by a woman.

ducrider said:

Help me understand why you completed your first service at 400 miles? I just got my 1299 owners manual and looked up the service recommendations and it states a 600 mile service (as been the norm going back to my first '08 848.)

Just curious why you decided not to have this service performed at the manufactures recommended interval?

Also, what dealer performed this service on your bike?

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Because many people (myself included), feel 600 miles is way too long to keep the original oil in the bike with contaminants floating around in it. Especially if one does a hard break-in.

Your mileage may vary.......literally.

Thanks chaotic,

My thoughts exactly except I didn't do hard break in more like just rode it normal. I was in the area of the dealer who gives me a discounted rate on labor and parts. So I did it early.

Chaotic said:

Because many people (myself included), feel 600 miles is way too long to keep the original oil in the bike with contaminants floating around in it. Especially if one does a hard break-in.

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Exactly - and as much as I get hassled for my comments on oil changes at 150 miles by ignorant canucks from the great white north, it's a practice based on solid science, nothing but good for your motor during break-in

Buliwyf said:

But I'll disagree about inferring that Ducati has cut corners anywhere. At least not without a concrete solution to the problem that proves it. I don't see that on this bike anywhere. I see some vendor issues, and a few gasket issues.

The only part I don't like is the plastic water pump gear. But those hold up OK for most riders it seems. But the engine appears to be well built and designed. I play with broken engines every day.

And Ducati uses modern "cafe style" assembly lines now, and they "proof" test the bike pretty thoroughly. The only factories in America that are cleaner and more organized than these guys, are Lockheed, Boeing, and Raytheon. Car and bike factories aren't even close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUFDelbUdnI

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Love these "how its made" vids, although this high speed version isn't the greatest. Aren't the piston skirts significantly shorter on the 1299?

fzr100098 said:

Exactly - and as much as I get hassled for my comments on oil changes at 150 miles by ignorant canucks from the great white north, it's a practice based on solid science, nothing but good for your motor during break-in

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I come from the same school of thought. I was conflicted though as to why someone was paying a dealer to do the first service (oil change,) at 400 miles, if they could have done it themselves with Motul for $80.00.

I was assuming that if OP possessed the knowledge to change the oil at 400 miles for the sake of their baby running longer, they would possess the knowledge to do the oil change themselves and consequently put the right amount of oil in it and save $350-$450. OP eluded to a discounted rate which probably makes it worth it for him to not mess with the oil change. While its "fun" and I "enjoy" doing it, if I had a way to get it discounted to a reasonable rate, I would probably let someone else do it.

That said, my 1299 has 330 hard miles on it and will be getting an oil change today, by me. Its pretty easy and takes about 30-45 minutes including cleanup.

I've owned 3 previous new Duc's and did oil changes around 200-300 miles and then 800-1000 miles. I found a good amount of shavings in each change.

The magnetic plug on my 1199 collected small amounts of shavings all the way up to 12K miles before I got rid of it (Oil changes every 2000-3000 miles. Anal, I know)

DEDuc1299S said:

Thanks chaotic,

My thoughts exactly except I didn't do hard break in more like just rode it normal. I was in the area of the dealer who gives me a discounted rate on labor and parts. So I did it early.

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Ok, makes sense. For some reason I was thinking, if you decide to do it yourself at 300-400 miles OK, but to pay the dealer to do it early wasnt computing for me. The discount makes sense though, especially if you trust the dealer and know the work is being done correctly. Enjoy your Duc! I know I love mine!

fzr100098 said:

Exactly - and as much as I get hassled for my comments on oil changes at 150 miles by ignorant canucks from the great white north, it's a practice based on solid science, nothing but good for your motor during break-in

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I completely agree with you. I usually try to do them 200-300 miles. The stuff that keeps coming out is amazing. I couldn't imagine that stuff in there for a full 600. It sounds silly, but I do 2 or 3 oil changes within the first 3,000 miles. Especially if I know I am going to be keeping the bike, I want it in pristine condition to have longevity. I wasn't trying to give him .... for doing it early, just completely curious why he drove it into a dealer and had them do the first service (glorified oil change,) and paid for it. That's my bad :/

This whole waterpump thing is interesting as well. I came across this thread on accident awhile looking for issues about a CAN LINE error on 1299's. Sincerely hoping this water pump issue isn't more widespread and a common problem.

DEDuc1299S said:

the fact there are serious problems with Ducati manufacturing methods. I see so many posts of problems with Ducati. I fear that the brand has cut too many corners resulting in a straight up guess whether you get a sound bike or not.

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I guess the other reason why I asked a blatant question was because before replying the this thread, I read all of it and got the gist that OP has an oil leak and is complaining incessantly to the dealer about it (when they've had it a few days to a week.) Because of comments like above, I am a little defensive.

I got the impression that he is up in arms about this issue and he stated he is calling the dealership every single day demanding answers (closer to two weeks.) That's excessive IMO. You don't want to rush this type of work. Speaking from experience, trust me.

Ducati and the dealer will do what they can to get him back on the road. Writing letters and asking for future quality control and all of this....

I just had a 1199 that had around 20-25 service records, 10 for oil leaks. 2 of those service records were for 2 leaks at the same time. The bike had many more issues too. 117 days in the shop out of 660. Did I write letters and make demands? Yes, but it wasn't until the dealer and manufacture were breaking the consumer protection law's that are set in place to protect us that I started throwing a fit.

You bought a Ducati. Oil leaks come with the territory. Making statements about serious problems with their manufacturing methods is a little over the top. Yes, there are a lot of threads about problems. This is because the people who have ZERO issues do not typically post up threads saying, "I just like 20K trouble free miles on my 1199!!" There is a thread about a guy who rode an 1199 coast to coast. That's an interesting read if you look it up. He had a few issues, all minimal. Saying you fear the brand has cut too many corners... Hmmm.. I gotta SMH at that one. You still have a far superior bike to many on the road. There's a reason you bought one.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% on your side here. I've been through this SO MANY TIMES you will not find a bigger advocate on your side. Just know that Ducati will do what they can to repair it and get you on the road. Hopefully your discount dealer will repair it right. My dealer, Ducati Newport Beach, did not. Don't rush them, be patient.

You mention that:

DEDuc1299S said:

With all the talk and hype from Ducati of their superior machine. To pay top dollar compared to all the 2015 popular manufacturers. I expect the highest MSRP to accompany the performance and reliability of that caliber. I can't help but feel that the percent of nonconformance is much higher with ducati and it's been like this for many years. When you buy a ducati it's like shooting in the dark, you never can be confident in the brand even when paying the most.

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I apologize if I come across as overly defensive. I just have a different POV about your situation (from experience,) and am not ready to grab the pitchforks- just yet. I dont mean to sound insensitive when I say these things.

This appears to be your first Duc and while you paid a hefty price tag, so did all of us. We all have to be patient when they go in for service, and go in for service they will. This beautiful sexy machine comes with a price. And that's occasional downtime. Buying the most expensive item on the shelf doesn't mean you will have the most reliable item. And when it comes to Ducati, it DEFINITELY doesn't mean you will have the most reliable item.

What you bought is: ... ON WHEELS. Addicting torque. Ground breaking design, and performance. A rich racing legacy with more WSBK wins than any of the manufactures put together. A status symbol. A toy most importantly. But a toy that will (should...) put a bigger smile on your face than almost anything in the world.

I am hopeful that you wont have any issues with you bike once they fix this! BTW, what dealer has your bike?!!?

If you search "ducati nightmare" in google, you'll find a thread about my 1199 and conclusion. Its an interesting read. If you look it up and read it, you'll understand why I am on your side, but not grabbing my pitch fork just yet. It was truly a nightmare. Just know, for your situation, IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORSE.

agreed. i just did an oil and filter change at 140 miles. should of done it before 100, but i was having too much fun and didn't notice how far i rode... heh

Senna1Rossi said:

agreed. i just did an oil and filter change at 140 miles. should of done it before 100, but i was having too much fun and didn't notice how far i rode... heh

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That's exactly how mine looked after each oil change up to 12K miles. Its always fun trying to get each little particle off before I put it back in to fill her up. It became a game to get off each piece. I even tried using an air compressor... Didn't work. The "new part of the rag" technique worked the best.

So, do we do oil changes every 150 miles until zero particulate is found on the magnet? There's nothing wrong with changing early but going the recommended service interval either. The magnet and oil filter keep the shavings out of the places they shouldn't be. You are not shortening the lifespan of the engine from a 150 or 600 mile oil change guaranteed. I feel safe with this guarantee because there is zero proof, scientifically, to prove otherwise.


Plus, considering the bottom dollar of Ducati and any other manufacturer, they would fair better by offering free first oil changes if it ensured prolonged engine reliability and longterm customer care.

This is not my first Duc. Had Ducatis since 916. Had 848, 1098, 1198, and now the 1299s. The thing is each one except 1098 had the water pump fail. It like a sick joke or something, hence my pitch fork approach. I appreciate your post and your POV, but as you said ducati is just problematic and this should not be. Every this has a cause an effect I'm not jus over reacting. I can't comment on the percent of non problematic vs problematic but It seems that there are so many different issues with ducati. Yes only people with problems post but the number of different issues is hurting the brand. No one should have to deal with issues with such an expensive vehicle. Yes nothing is perfect and there are always issues and that's why they are required to have a manufacturers warranty. But I want to know what they are going to do about the water pump issue. I would like to know who else has had issues with the water pump.
I was confused at first bc oil was coming out of that weep hole not coolant.. When my other ones fail I almost hydro-locked on my 916 I noticed green in the oil sight glass. On my 848 the case cracked do to pump failure and coolant leaking into case. 1098 main bear failure at 10k.. 1198 water pump failed and blew head gasket.. And now the 1299s.

Jayhawkk said:

So, do we do oil changes every 150 miles until zero particulate is found on the magnet?

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I usually do 150, 500, 1500 - after that point *usually* the oil, and drain plug clean up nicely. It's probably ok to go synthetic at 500

Getting the particulate out early is nothing but good for the engine and the little magnet on the drain plug can't catch everything, especially when it's saturated with crap

fzr100098 said:

I usually do 150, 500, 1500 - after that point *usually* the oil, and drain plug clean up nicely. It's probably ok to go synthetic at 500



Getting the particulate out early is nothing but good for the engine and the little magnet on the drain plug can't catch everything, especially when it's saturated with crap

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Do you swap filter at each flush? What filter are you using?

Yes - currently using stock filter but will switch to $10 K&N