Oilpressure

After a few laps on the track my 1199 engine lost oilpressure and seizes. When the engine is cooled down a bit it runs normally but after a short while the oilpressure light is on again. The engine was recently rebuild. The oil pump rotors are fixed right. I use 10W60 full syntetic oil.

Any suggestions about what could be the cause?

Ciao Donald

A bit ambiguous. When you say “seized” I’m sure most people think “seized”. And what do you mean by the oil pump rotors are fixed right? In any event at the very least, you’re going to have to pull the clutch side cover and look around. I would start with an oil drain and see what if anything comes out. While the plug is out look in the hole with a small light and see that the pickup tube is intact.

Sorry for my bad english. The engine locked up and blocked the rear wheel. I Pulled the clutch in time, so no crash. The oil pump is pretty straight forward; the only thing you can do wrong is to forget the pins that lock the rotors on the axe. The oil is clean. I already pulled the clutch cover and the oil pump looks alright.

The pins that lock the rotors on the axle??? Its like reliving a horror show in this place lately.

Dhuigen said:

Sorry for my bad english. The engine locked up and blocked the rear wheel. I Pulled the clutch in time, so no crash. The oil pump is pretty straight forward; the only thing you can do wrong is to forget the pins that lock the rotors on the axe. The oil is clean. I already pulled the clutch cover and the oil pump looks alright.

Click to expand...

no apologies necessary. So you will have to systematically troubleshoot the lubrication system from the integrity of the oil pickup through the filter system. Make sure there they didnt get the gasket sealer in any of the oil passages. You need to check the integrity of the pump past the actual pump cover, then the pump drive gear. Check the cover to crankshaft seal. That passage also goes to the oil pressure sender.

first i would test the pressure switch, cold and heated. at what pressure does it switch?
next the oil pressure.

then, as endodoc says. the relieve valve not to forget.
could be "nothing" or a serious problem.

So Chris makes a logical point I failed to address as my head was wrapped up in the description “seized” so yes the OP sensor would be first suspect (not sure if the ECU shuts the motor on a no OP indication so yes could be a non issue with regard to OP in the motor.

Check the lubrication system and the sending unit?????????

It saw no or low oil pressure and LOCKED UP

If the ecu shut it off it wouldn’t lock up

That motor is toast. Whether you were able to start it again later or not that thing is smoked

A sensor is a quick and cheap check. I wouldn't be assuming the engine is toast first - cost of a sensor vs cost of a rebuild or new motor? I'd be doing the check. The fact that it started again suggests it cut out rather than seized. The oil light should have been on a while before causing damage, but I'm no expert in the Ducati logic. If the ECU cut it, then there would be no EBC enabled so may have come to a more abrupt stop. Dhuigen may also have his terms mixed up. We haven't seen what happened and I wouldn't be going to worst case without doing the checks.

hm
i've read
"The engine locked up and blocked the rear wheel. "
and as the result
"The engine was recently rebuild. "
?

You could have debris in you pick up screen. Shutting down may open it up, but after running a bit the it blocks back up again.

As checking the sensor, the sump removal isn't difficult and the pick up is easier.

Great response Don.

Oh my bad I thought he said he had to pull the clutch in to keep from crashing cuz it locked the rear wheel

So what happens if your riding the bike down the highway in 4th and you just turn the key off ?

Same thing that is gonna happen when I blow by you reach over n hit your kill switch

The rear tire isn’t gonna lock up. You are not going to crash. It’s gonna go ‘baaaaaaaah’ and freewheel

4th gear on a track is well over 100 mph. How much compression would the thing have to have to lock the rear tire? Even if you aren’t running a flywheel or a charging system and even if your wheels weighed 5 grams each. 500 plus pounds of momentum come on. What happens when the ‘fuel cut’ is deactivated with Woolich software? Does the rear lock up every time you let off the throttle???

Thanks for all your reactions so far. Today I did some more exploring, but first I think is polite to intruduce myself.

I am Donald from the Netherlands and I started riding and racing motorbikes in 1972 (yes I am very old). Since 1992 almost only Ducati (900 SS, 916, 748R, 749R and since 2015 Panigale). The last 15 years I am racing together with my son (team Padre Figlio Corse; check our facebook page). I always did my tuning, maintenance and rebuilding myself. Untill now my bikes were pretty fast and relieable. By now I have rebuilded about 4 Panigale engines without problem. That doesn’t mean I can’t make a mistake, but what puzzels me is that I don’t have an idea about what is wrong this time.

Back to the topic: today I took the engine from the bike and pulled the vertical cilinder head. The cilinder has obvious seizure marks, so there was a lubrification or overheating problem. Watertemperature stayed below 100, so I still think it is oil pressure. I haven’t seen the piston yet because you have to loosen the crankcase bolts before you can pull the cilinders. I still haven’t found anything unusual in the lubrification system, but I have an idea where I would like to hear your opinion:

After the oil pump the oil canals devide 4 ways: pressure switch, crankshaft, cilinders and heads and oil cooler/heat exchanger. I am not using the heat exchanger anymore and I have a separate oil cooler and radiator. I haven’t seen a restriction to the canal to the cooler yet, so maybe the resistance in that circuit is so low that there is no pressure anymore when the oil heats up.

On Sunday I am going to split the crankcase and explore the problem further. In the meantime I would be thankfull for your comments.

Good write up, what are you using for an oil cooler (brand)? I didn’t include that in (areas to investigate) as you did not mention that in your original post assuming there are no obvious obstructions behind the fitting plate then you obviously look at resistance in the lines and the cooler itself. The engine plate has that 4 hole gasket that separates oil and water so obviously, that is somewhere to look. I'm guessing this engine oil and water passages were not tested after final assembly and gasket cure? Additionally with regard to the external cooler, did you flush that and test resistance there? also, did you pop the head covers to look at possible oil starvation to the upper end?

Oh and another great post Don. Such an ...... uh I mean asset. Again there were no "details" in his first post you know "details" Don, something you obviously care nothing about before shooting your mouth off. How's that bike coming along anyhow? Bedroom workshop looks great man and the wrought iron assembly table/ patio set is just as cool. You can tinker with your parts and when the weed hits a bit hard, just roll over and take a nap. Efficient.

Ed hates it when I’m right Donald. Don’t trip

I would not speculate at this point. Full disassembly, see what the bearings and crank are telling you, and go from there

*Question tho - New or used pistons? And did you accurately check piston to wall clearance if new? I know you said the oil light came on and believe it’s a oil pressure issue, just curious...

Yeah pay attention folks its the dumb leading the dumb with Don 8 months of mis information and nonsense not to mention a .... load of pictures of garbage.