Radiator sag

1hander · Jun 27, 2022

when putting the smaller side fairings back on last night, i noticed that the small bolt that holds the right side one on, went on very easily, and the it has a better alignment than the left one.
after looking for a bit, i discovered that the problem is the small tab where the left small fairing gets secured is hanging a but lower..

then after looking at things some more, i can clearly see that the radiator, and everything attached to it, is sagging quite a bit... if i look at the upper locating pins on the radiator where they key into number 4 bushing in the pic below.. , theres about 1/2 inch of sag or more on the left side, i know that the oil cooler recall was done on this bike, so maybe someone left something out or broke something allowing everything to sag too much or maybe its normal, but the sag is causing bracket number 26 (more on the left side ) to have a lower angle so its pulling down on the center small side fairings, (a bit more on the left side one)

the next time one you guys has your fairings off can you look and see how much sag you have where the upper radiator locating pins key into their respective bushings.
im just worried that if there is that much sag, its putting undue stress on everything thats connected to the radiator oil cooler assembly and will eventually cause a break or leak.

Brooklyn v4 · Jun 27, 2022

I’m curious also, I have the same issue

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 27, 2022

I'd bet if you attached those fasteners which hold on the radiator assembly without any of the hoses attached, it would be a different story.

1hander · Jun 27, 2022

i spent hours looking and looking and looking but i could not find any hard point type or support attachment.. its just the four side hangers with rubber isolators. holding the entire .radiator fairing assembly in.. it looks like its either just the weight of the coolers hoses fans cables bracket s etc etc...that are causing the sag....

i loosened all the hoses and everything that looked like it might produce down tension..i had my son pull up on the entire cooler assembly while i retightened all the hose and tied everything back up..it helped but i still have about 3/8 of sag .. the side fairing is not being pulled down on as much.. so it looks much better
but the whole cooler assembly is definitely pulling down on all the side fairings, how much im not sure but it is pulling down

it blows my mind that the front cooler assembly does not have hanger type upper mounts.. ill keep any on it, if it gets worse i will have yo make some parts that will pull the radiator all the way up into the upper bushing mounts and hold them there. the whole sag thing could have been avoided by adding an upper bolt that holds the radiator/oil cooler fairing to the frame. and using a hanger type mount instead of a slide into from under type deal ,,kinda weird

bp_SFV4 said:
I'd bet if you attached those fasteners which hold on the radiator assembly without any of the hoses attached, it would be a different story.

it looks like the hoses are a bit too long and are pushing forward on the radiator, since it cannot go forward.. the forward push is turned into a downward force,
the oil cooler hoses are also contributing to the downforce being exerted on the plastic fairing that hold the coolers

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 27, 2022

The lower water cooler hose is kind of sketch as to how exactly its positioned on the tube on the radiator. I think it could effect how that entire assembly has a rotational force pushed on it.

I don't thing its super critical that it all lines up, as long as you can bolt it all up.

Think of it as its not a critical component. There's no real forces on that assembly which would effect bike handling.

1hander · Jun 27, 2022

I agree with you boss..sketch is the right word lol..adding the side fairings actually pulls up on the assembly a bit too..the adjustments I made have the smaller side fairings fitting much better...ill keep an eye on..im really wanting to switch to the 2020 v4s fairings they look way Sexier imho..but I don't like the wings..im on the lookout..

topolino · Jun 28, 2022

Since the plastic radiator/oil cooler shroud assembly is secured directly to the frame at it's upper points, where the bolts (10) also double up as the inner side panel locating pins, it should not be affected by any external forces causing it to sag, however, if you are sure the oil cooler and radiator are correctly aligned and mounted to it, I would first check the seating of these upper side rubber bushes in the shroud to see if they have become dislodged or are damaged in any way.

I am immediately drawn to suspect the actual issue lies with your radiator lower mounting point bushes (8) and if they are seated correctly, as these will determine how snugly the upper radiator locating pins fit into bushes (4). The lower mounting points can be a PIA to line up, as you have to contend with the fact that the bolts have to pass through the oil cooler mounting tabs, the radiator fan bracket tabs and lastly the radiator lower mounting tabs before they reach the shroud's threaded inserts and it is very easy to cross thread them if everything is not square. If these are not all lined up perfectly and the bushes are dislodged in any way, you will experience something similar to your issues. It is not a precise art, more a case of slackening everything off and aligning all the components ensuring that the upper radiator pins are fully inserted into the top bushes (4). I would also advise adding rubber grease to these bushes and the pins, to aid the radiator in sitting as high as intended, before you tighten all the fasteners back up.

You might also consider loosening off the radiator hoses and rotating them marginally, which may help in exerting less pressure on the radiator to sit lower than the desired position. Ideally it would prove more inciteful to drain down the system and remove both hoses and align the whole cooler/radiator assembly as described, to first see if it sits square on the frame. If on reconnecting the hoses you see a noticeable force being exerted on the radiator that is trying to draw it down, then disconnect them again, apply a very thin coating of grease over each radiator hose aluminium boss, reattach the hoses and with the clamps still loose, they should freely rotate on the bosses (thanks to the grease) and you should be able find a happy medium in terms of their radial position, to negate or reduce any force on the radiator.

If you do try this method, then it is worth using a marker pen on the hose and on the boss, so if you ever have to remove the hoses, you will have the alignment marks to help you reposition them accurately. Finally, another place to check are the bushes in the radiator fan brackets where they attach to the frame. Again if these are not sited correctly in the brackets, then you will have misalignment issues. I note from the parts fiche, that you have the metal radiator brackets and not the later plastic ones, so this a 2018 model, I assume. Hope this helps.....Topo

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 28, 2022

1hander said:
I agree with you boss..sketch is the right word lol..adding the side fairings actually pulls up on the assembly a bit too..the adjustments I made have the smaller side fairings fitting much better...ill keep an eye on..im really wanting to switch to the 2020 v4s fairings they look way Sexier imho..but I don't like the wings..im on the lookout..

Ducati sells block off plates if you don't want to use the wings.

1hander · Jun 28, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Ducati sells block off plates if you don't want to use the wings.

nice, i havent been to really see whats out there. now i just have to hope the 2020 v4s fairings will just bolt onto the 2019, im about 92 percent sure they will

1hander · Jun 28, 2022

topolino said:
Since the plastic radiator/oil cooler shroud assembly is secured directly to the frame at it's upper points, where the bolts (10) also double up as the inner side panel locating pins, it should not be affected by any external forces causing it to sag, however, if you are sure the oil cooler and radiator are correctly aligned and mounted to it, I would first check the seating of these upper side rubber bushes in the shroud to see if they have become dislodged or are damaged in any way.

I am immediately drawn to suspect the actual issue lies with your radiator lower mounting point bushes (8) and if they are seated correctly, as these will determine how snugly the upper radiator locating pins fit into bushes (4). The lower mounting points can be a PIA to line up, as you have to contend with the fact that the bolts have to pass through the oil cooler mounting tabs, the radiator fan bracket tabs and lastly the radiator lower mounting tabs before they reach the shroud's threaded inserts and it is very easy to cross thread them if everything is not square. If these are not all lined up perfectly and the bushes are dislodged in any way, you will experience something similar to your issues. It is not a precise art, more a case of slackening everything off and aligning all the components ensuring that the upper radiator pins are fully inserted into the top bushes (4). I would also advise adding rubber grease to these bushes and the pins, to aid the radiator in sitting as high as intended, before you tighten all the fasteners back up.

You might also consider loosening off the radiator hoses and rotating them marginally, which may help in exerting less pressure on the radiator to sit lower than the desired position. Ideally it would prove more inciteful to drain down the system and remove both hoses and align the whole cooler/radiator assembly as described, to first see if it sits square on the frame. If on reconnecting the hoses you see a noticeable force being exerted on the radiator that is trying to draw it down, then disconnect them again, apply a very thin coating of grease over each radiator hose aluminium boss, reattach the hoses and with the clamps still loose, they should freely rotate on the bosses (thanks to the grease) and you should be able find a happy medium in terms of their radial position, to negate or reduce any force on the radiator.

If you do try this method, then it is worth using a marker pen on the hose and on the boss, so if you ever have to remove the hoses, you will have the alignment marks to help you reposition them accurately. Finally, another place to check are the bushes in the radiator fan brackets where they attach to the frame. Again if these are not sited correctly in the brackets, then you will have misalignment issues. I note from the parts fiche, that you have the metal radiator brackets and not the later plastic ones, so this a 2018 model, I assume. Hope this helps.....Topo

i was thinking i would do just this, remove it all and start over ..its the only way too look for rubber bushings that may be spit or worn out.
this will also give me the opportunity to wrap the front header pipes with DEI wrap.
i will apply everything you mentioned.
heres a pic of whats going on. its not that big a deal but it just bothers me.

both sides look like this , it was far worse before i tried to readjust things

look at the anchor point on the frame , you can see the back force being applied, which is then converted to rotational force by the anchor point, which then rorates the anchor point for the small fairing down and away from the fairing.. i have to pull down on the fairing to get the bolt hole to line up . which then causes it to try to pull outof the rbuber grommet in the rear of the small fairing.

this is probably a complete redo to get the alignment of everything right.. you guys know these things all have to be tightened in the proper orientation or it causes a cascade effect of misalignment by the time you get to the last part

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 28, 2022

1hander said:
nice, i havent been to really see whats out there. now i just have to hope the 2020 v4s fairings will just bolt onto the 2019, im about 92 percent sure they will

There’s one bracket you need.

97180851AA - FAIRING BRACKET SET FOR WINGS

Kit required to assemble V4R fairings on V4 and V4S MY 18 and 19. They are manufactured in high quality material and ensure stability and resistance. The essential accessory to upgrade the look of your V4. Notes: To be mounted in combination with [part no.] 97180781A and 96981311AA or 97180841AA

www.ducatiomaha.com

97180871AA - WING REMOVAL COVER PAIR

Set dedicated to those who want to remove the wings from their Panigale V4. Made of plastic material and painted with the same color and process as the standard fairings, they take nothing away from the unmistakable Panigale style.

www.ducatiomaha.com

1hander · Jun 28, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
There’s one bracket you need.

97180851AA - FAIRING BRACKET SET FOR WINGS

Kit required to assemble V4R fairings on V4 and V4S MY 18 and 19. They are manufactured in high quality material and ensure stability and resistance. The essential accessory to upgrade the look of your V4. Notes: To be mounted in combination with [part no.] 97180781A and 96981311AA or 97180841AA

www.ducatiomaha.com

97180871AA - WING REMOVAL COVER PAIR

Set dedicated to those who want to remove the wings from their Panigale V4. Made of plastic material and painted with the same color and process as the standard fairings, they take nothing away from the unmistakable Panigale style.

www.ducatiomaha.com

your the man .. i appreciate that
this mentions an entire upper fairing set.. did you use just the 2 side fairings 4801B671AB and 4801B631AB from 2020 v4s or you bought the entire

97180781A upper racing fairing kit.

are the brackets for supporting the wings or are they required as a mounting point for the fairings as well thats why the wings deletes need to be bolted in place as well,

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 28, 2022

You will need the uppers and the nose, which is wider as well and the right windscreen since its also wider. Anything labeled that it will work with a Panigale V4R or 2020-2021 Panigale will work.

The brackets are mounts for grommets on the fairings to fit onto. The fairings have reinforcing backing plates to support the wings, but there's no direct connection between them and the frame if you don't count the fairings.

I sort of like that 97180781A kit as it comes off with a dummy headlight and taillight. I suppose in theory you could use those if you were going to the track to save your actual ones in case of a slide and you wouldn't have to tape them up. Some of the oversees companies make fairing kits which may be cheaper and also have dummy lights and tank covers.

Race track Fairing Moto XP: Race Fairings, Motorcycle bodywork, Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, MV Agusta, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph

Our company is specialized in the production and sale of race fairings, stickers and motorcycle accessories. Our track bodywork is made of fiberglass and we can paint our products in a custom design. We offer a worldwide fast shipping.

www.motoxpricambi.com

FLAMINGO CORSE BIKE - Carenature per moto

www.flamingocorse.it

1hander · Jun 28, 2022

dammet i had not realized that the nose, windscreen etc would need changing as well, by the time im done painting, even with the ducati kit..itll be 1500-1600.00
i can think of far better things to use that on...like i would rather put that into an exhaust, or towards the attack rearsets i need , or new helmet or boots,
but i saved the links. i appreciate your effort brother.

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 28, 2022

No worries. Its not a cheap conversion for sure. Maybe you can save some money if you buy a used set on eBay but I'd still think you'd be at the $1k mark.

1hander · Jun 29, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
No worries. Its not a cheap conversion for sure. Maybe you can save some money if you buy a used set on eBay but I'd still think you'd be at the $1k mark.

your absolutely right...anything for sport bikes is expensive but Ducati is on another level expensive plus all this inflation. i quite honestly consider myself lucky to have this bike right now, i am by no means any kind of rich. if not for the deal i got on it, i would not own one. i never thought id own one.. but here we are. if i can find some cheaper. maybe scratched up im willing to do the work but they would have to be cheap considering the amount of work damaged fairings need, my problem is too many hobbies with pockets that are not deep enough. LOL. im still trying to finish the 416 stroker for the C6, the 540i needs a complete A/C system replacement, the x5 sprung an oil leak so big its undriveable. i need to rebuild the driveline and transmission on the c6 ... dammet and i still cant take the v4 out to just let my soul breathe you know. but im not under the illusion that i have any real problems, cuz there are people who dont have a pot to piss in and cany feed their kids you know.

i miss riding more than i ever thought would. when i started racing cmra it kinda ruined the street for me, and i stopped riding on the street to live the dream.

i lived it as long as i could afford it but it got too expensive.. with kiddos . yadda yadda yadda. but the feeling never died, it was always there, its in the blood, you guys know this, it was just time to scratch the itch , it just sucks that i need to buy things that really expensive. in order for me to ride safely. or as safely as i ride anyway. so im getting so damn impatient. LOL its gonna be tough being a good example for my son who lalso rides now .
but hes got more self control than i ever had or will have..

if any of you know of anyone who has scratched up fairings or maybe is just doing a track conversion, throw a message my way. i just love the look of the gills on the R fairings, they make a sexy bike look downright slutty.

topolino · Jun 30, 2022

I still think your issue lies (most probably) with the bushes at the base of the main radiator. If these have become dislodged or are not seated in the radiator tabs correctly, no amount of readjustment will raise the radiator into it's correct position. One question. Has the cooling assembly been removed at any point?

The two tabs at the bottom of the radiator are where the bushes are inserted. If these are worn/damaged or not located properly, you will have issues similar to those that you describe.

The next picture shows the oil cooler, then the radiator fan tabs, then the radiator tabs, all sandwiched together with the retaining nut. There are also rubber bushes in the oil cooler tabs as well, you need to check. This trio of parts slides over a steel rod, threaded at the end (see below) that is part of the plastic radiator shroud assembly. Over the top of that you insert the steel bush, then tighten the nut onto this assembly. The steel bush/insert appears as a washer below, but if you look at the last diagram, you will see how it works by locating the sandwich of parts accurately on the threaded rod. If your bike does not seem aligned at this point on the bike (as in the following picture) then you need to investigate as I suggested.

The steel bush is part number four in the image below

Can you post up a picture of your bike, in the area I have highlighted as being the potential problem?

topolino · Jun 30, 2022

If you have an alignment issue when mounting the inner fairing then there may also be a problem elsewhere or something that is preventing it seating correctly on this pin and the second pin that sits under the side frame rail (to the right and out of shot in this picture), not solely the point at which the inner fairing bolts to the radiator fan bracket. Check also that a part of the cooling assembly (perhaps a pipe or a clip) is not pressing on or forcing the inner fairing out of it's natural position once seated on it's locating pins and bolted down. Is the clutch hose routed correctly behind it? Earlier models (2018) had the hose zip tied to the inner fairing. Later models used a clip that was stuck with adhesive to the frame or to the back of the inner fairing or a combination of both.

1hander · Jun 30, 2022

Great info guys...the radiator guards came in after a 4 month wait..so I'll be taking the whole thing apart ...but will be sure to get a pic of the area your talking about tk check for proper seating you speak of. ...

I did make sure the clutch line is ziptied and routed back in that little channel in the mid fairing ..I think you might be onto something with thd other grommets not being right..since the recall on the oil cooler was done.. its highly possible the tech who did it ..did not put it back together properly or did a rush job and got sloppy.. this is why dealerships never touch my stuff..2 or 4 wheels

I'll be starting on it tommorow I'll be sure to post pics of my findings ..I might do a silicone hose upgrade as well

BP PanigaleV4S · Jun 30, 2022

Dealer mechanics seem to be like guys who work in the trades on new construction.

There are a few who are legit, but the most just do a passable bare minimum and move on to the next job.

With radiator guards on the V4 platform, you're almost better off pulling off that whole assembly and installing them on a bench and re-installing the entire assembly on the bike. Do Engine Ice or whatever if you're going to track it. Having the front wheel off makes it so much easier.

Radiator sag

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