Rear brake ABS feedback through the foot lever

Ijustwantone · Jul 8, 2015

So before I go back to my dealer with what I personally think is a fault with my rear brake I wanted to ask everyone who reads this thread about the behaviour of the ABS and the rear brake. I am currently going through the break in period for my 1299S and I know a lot of people do not use the rear brake at all but I do. I will use my rear brake up to 40% of the time to help keep the rear settled during braking. The problem I am having is the When the ABS kicks in I am getting massive feedback forces through the rear brake foot lever. So bad to the point it will kick the ball of my foot off the lever. This can't seriously be an acceptable character of the ABS??? and it only happens via the rear not the front. My previous bike was a 2009 Honda CBR1000RR which had C-ABS and when the ABS engaged on that I never got any feedback forces. I have tried the ABS in all settings and it happens no matter what level I have the ABS set to. So can other 1299S riders out there please test the ABS on their rear brake and let me know if this is actually a characteristic because I would have expected way less to no feedback forces coming from the words best brake brand Brembo !!!

JDBeretta · Jul 8, 2015

Absolutely zero chatter or feedback through mine. And I've used it.

Try settin it to level 1 or off and see if you get any weird feeling under hard application.

kismetcapitan · Jul 8, 2015

yep, that's what it does. you're using too much rear brake. under hard braking, you're loading the front and the rear tire goes light. There's a very minimal amount of braking you can do before you lock it up. Ducatis are famous for having crappy rear brakes but ironically the one on my 1299S has plenty of power to it.

The best way to settle the rear is to engage the rear a split second before you hit the front brake. Another way to engage the "rear brake" is to keep the EBC off, or at a very low setting. Well, there's only 3 settings so I guess keep it at off or 1

I haven't seen it described in any literature for the 1299, but the 1199, if you dug around enough, mentioned integral braking in ABS modes 2 and 3. Which makes sense - the Bosch 9MP ABS unit was designed to electronically add some rear brake when you hit the front brake, the amount varying on conditions. The Bosch system pulses; Honda's C-ABS is a much smoother system. It's also infinitely more complex hydraulically, and weighs literally five TIMES as much as the Bosch system.

I hope they kept that for the 1299; it makes using the rear brake truly a rare occasion.

Anyways, whether the ABS is pulsing or not, you're applying far too much pressure to the rear brake pedal. I like ABS brakes because you don't have to have a lot of skill and experience with the rear brake - you just kinda dab it and if you overdid it a bit it'll pulse once or twice (makes a clicking sound) and on you go.

I also imagine the C-ABS system let you develop a bad habit with the rear brake pedal. If I understand the C-ABS correctly, any excess pressure on the rear pedal that would result in a lockup gets shunted to the front brakes. It's very difficult under normal conditions to lock up the front tire of a sport bike. So you get the sensation of "smoothness" and no feedback on what is the proper amount of pressure to the rear brake pedal.

So use the feedback from the rear brake pulsing to learn how much force you can apply. While the Bosch system allows the rear to engage when the front brake lever is applied heavily, the linkage is purely electronic - there is no hydraulic link between the front and rear brakes.

Ijustwantone · Jul 8, 2015

JDBeretta said:
Absolutely zero chatter or feedback through mine. And I've used it.

Try settin it to level 1 or off and see if you get any weird feeling under hard application.

JDBeretta thank you for your reply mate. I have tried all the settings but I have not actually tried it while off. Will try that tonight after work

Ijustwantone · Jul 8, 2015

kismetcapitan said:
yep, that's what it does. you're using too much rear brake. under hard braking, you're loading the front and the rear tire goes light. There's a very minimal amount of braking you can do before you lock it up. Ducatis are famous for having crappy rear brakes but ironically the one on my 1299S has plenty of power to it.

The best way to settle the rear is to engage the rear a split second before you hit the front brake. Another way to engage the "rear brake" is to keep the EBC off, or at a very low setting. Well, there's only 3 settings so I guess keep it at off or 1

I haven't seen it described in any literature for the 1299, but the 1199, if you dug around enough, mentioned integral braking in ABS modes 2 and 3. Which makes sense - the Bosch 9MP ABS unit was designed to electronically add some rear brake when you hit the front brake, the amount varying on conditions. The Bosch system pulses; Honda's C-ABS is a much smoother system. It's also infinitely more complex hydraulically, and weighs literally five TIMES as much as the Bosch system.

I hope they kept that for the 1299; it makes using the rear brake truly a rare occasion.

Anyways, whether the ABS is pulsing or not, you're applying far too much pressure to the rear brake pedal. I like ABS brakes because you don't have to have a lot of skill and experience with the rear brake - you just kinda dab it and if you overdid it a bit it'll pulse once or twice (makes a clicking sound) and on you go.

I also imagine the C-ABS system let you develop a bad habit with the rear brake pedal. If I understand the C-ABS correctly, any excess pressure on the rear pedal that would result in a lockup gets shunted to the front brakes. It's very difficult under normal conditions to lock up the front tire of a sport bike. So you get the sensation of "smoothness" and no feedback on what is the proper amount of pressure to the rear brake pedal.

So use the feedback from the rear brake pulsing to learn how much force you can apply. While the Bosch system allows the rear to engage when the front brake lever is applied heavily, the linkage is purely electronic - there is no hydraulic link between the front and rear brakes.

Kismetcapitan thank you very much for your very detailed reply. I do admit I use the rear a lot and quite hard too sometimes. I do know it is a bad habit. One I am going to have to stop. You make a lot of very good and informative points and I take them all on board

JDBeretta · Jul 8, 2015

Agree with what Kismetcaptain wrote... Just should not be getting that much feedback through the pedal, in my opinion. That's IF the ABS actuation is causing that. If it's your rear tire, that's a different story.

Totally agree that the rear brake on this bike, combined with low weight (compounded by transfer to front on brake application), makes it lock up very easily.

Ijustwantone · Jul 9, 2015

JDBeretta said:
Agree with what Kismetcaptain wrote... Just should not be getting that much feedback through the pedal, in my opinion. That's IF the ABS actuation is causing that. If it's your rear tire, that's a different story.

Totally agree that the rear brake on this bike, combined with low weight (compounded by transfer to front on brake application), makes it lock up very easily.

No it has nothing to do with my rear wheel lifting during braking. It happens even when I am not actually applying that much rear brake. I think this is something i will need one of the Ducati mechanics to ride and feel to give me the low down on what the problem or issue is

Desmo Larry · Jul 9, 2015

I had a similar Issue with my 2014 Daytona 675R, I could not go near the rear brake or it would start pulsating the pedal, turned out to be a faulty rear ABS sensor, I would definitely have the shop look at it, good luck

Rear brake ABS feedback through the foot lever

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