Sand entering the airbox

Seismic said:

Hi Guys,

Currently riding a 15R and had it for service at the local Ducati store a couple of months back. Lately, I have begun using it at the track as well as for the usual road riding, so sent the bike in for service with a local mechanic the other day. Ducati does not have the best reputation around here, so I try to go elsewhere except for the scheduled services with Ducati. Yesterday I went and picked up the bike. The mechanic told me that he was surprised to find that the air filter had not been properly attached by Ducati and this had resulted in sand in the airbox. I live in the Middle East, so sand is quite common everywhere when riding. The mechanic told me that in worst case, the sand could potentially scratch the inside of the engine casing or pistons and thereby affect the performance and output of the engine. He was however not sure if this had actually happened, and not having a borescope, he was unable to check.

I spoke with one of the other customers in the shop who happened to be a airplane mechanic. While he could see the potential risk, he was not really concerned as he believed the natural airflow through the airbag and engine would make most of the sand go directly through and out the exhaust.While the mechanic recognised that he did not really have any way of checking potential damage, but that we could put the bike on his dyno. We did so and it came out on 166hp which seems low (guess there can be a variety of reasons for this). We discused if the reason for the low hp could be potential damage to the engine from the sand, but the discussion quickly lapsed as we did not really have any way to check the theory.

Now, the mechanic recommended I go back to Ducti and complain which is of course a fair point, - especially if I anticipate potential engine damage due to crappy work on the air filter by Ducati. The issue is of course that neither I nor Ducati can check if there is actual damage done and the bike/airbox/filter have now been cleaned, so I really do not have any proof that there is an actual problem or damage at this point in time. Hence, - to be completely honest, I am not quite sure of the best next step from here. Any thoughts or advise from you guys would be appreciated. The bike is still under warranty.

Sorry for the long and somewhat rambling story.

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wilkson said:

I would take notes and dates . Your warranty will cover it if anything has been damaged and you should know before it expires .
If there is no clear evidence of any damage at this stage I would say Ducati will do little but just let them know for due diligence .

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Southwest said:

A big reason reason for low bhp could be air temperature. After spending a lot of time in the Middle East working on helicopters the heat it has a dramatic effect on performance engine and rotor lift. Mainly due to air density or lack off! If the Dyno room is being fed air from out side that is 40-50 degrees then you will be robbed of BHP.

Not wanting to worry you, I have never seen what sand can do to an normal internal combustion engine. But seeing what it can do to a gas turbine is not pretty. Obviously the airflow pattern is totally different. The compressor blades spin fast but it erodes titanium with out thinking. Then the combustion temperatures basically melt the sand onto the turbine blades after eroding them slightly first. This stops the engine from cooling properly and ends up burn parts of it away. Eventually kills engine.

My concern (turbo worst case)for yours is would the sand-

1. Damage/erode inlet trumpets, bore,pistons, valves and valve seats?

2. Would it get stuck between valves and valve seats?

3. Would it melt and stick to the above?

4. Depending on particle size could it blow past rings, valve guides etc getting into oil ways?

I can see 1. Certainly occurring.

I'd get it checked out most certainly.

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Seismic said:

Good point on the humidity and high temps in regards to the hp. Most likely a reason to consider.

The other potential issues are of concern for sure. Will have to look into the matter.

Thanks for the input.

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Captain Greg said:

Was it a corrected calibrated Dyno?
Density altitude is a factor and in aviation we have seen 17 percent degradation on piston engines, but as said above a basic compression test will reveal any bore damage.


How mush sand? Because all air boxes collect sand but as you say if the filter was not seated correctly you could have an issue going fwd
Does it use oil?


Some basic things that are tell tale signs of wear.

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