Solution to hard starts

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Some of you may recall that I started a thread about the issues I was having after disconnecting the exhaust flapper valve. I have done some experimenting and the short answer to solving my hard starting problems was to keep the exhaust flapper valve connected.

I have a base bike with the stock exhaust (no slip on or full system) so this has what has worked for me based upon my setup and the current fuel mapping that the bike was delivered with.

With the exhaust valve disconnected I did not notice a smoothing out of the flat spot around 4,000 RPM's. Of course I didn't get the valve closing at the 30 mph range. The bike wouldn't start when the engine was warmed up: coolant temps between 200-220. To get the bike started I had to open the throttle and hit the starter simultaneously; the bike would start and then immediately die. I would have to repeat and keep the throttle open until the engine stabilized and would idle on its own. Once idling by itself it would run rough.

With the valve connected I was able to start the bike no matter what condition it was in. With the engine cold she starts in about 1.5 seconds of the starter turning. Engine warm, say 30 min to an hour after a ride, bike starts with just thumping the starter in about 2.0 seconds. With the engine really warm with coolant temps of around 215-220 and bike shut off for approximately 3 minutes, like when I am fueling up, I thumb the starter and it takes approx. 2-2.5 seconds and she fires right up. After she starts idle speeds are steady and smooth.

I am not saying that this will work for everyone but it has worked for me so that valve is going to stay connected.
 
I reconnected the valve also and had no starting probs any more. the characteristics also doesn't feel different, so I will keep it on.

thanks for your heads up!
 
I have had mine disconnected for 300 miles ( of hard back road riding ) and it transformed the bike for me eliminating the flat spot. My bike has never failed to start or have a hard start in any condition.

Very odd how different all the bikes seem.
 
I have had mine disconnected for 300 miles ( of hard back road riding ) and it transformed the bike for me eliminating the flat spot. My bike has never failed to start or have a hard start in any condition.

Very odd how different all the bikes seem.


Do you have an aftermarket exhaust of any type? I am also wondering if altitude is adding another variable for our different experiences. I live up high at 7500 ft and ride up to 9000 and up.
 
Thats funny though. I never disconnected my cable and on two occasions now I have had a hard time starting it.
 
I have had mine disconnected for 300 miles ( of hard back road riding ) and it transformed the bike for me eliminating the flat spot. My bike has never failed to start or have a hard start in any condition.

Very odd how different all the bikes seem.

+1
 
I have had mine disconnected for 300 miles ( of hard back road riding ) and it transformed the bike for me eliminating the flat spot. My bike has never failed to start or have a hard start in any condition.

Very odd how different all the bikes seem.

I too have had my cable disconnected since 60 miles on dash, currently at 820.

Doing so has eliminated my flat spot also and smoothen low speed cruising.

last week I also experience some hard starts and even engine shut off while in nuetral...Hasnt happened since Saturday and I ride everyday. My exhaust valve will remain disconnected.
 
Do you have an aftermarket exhaust of any type? I am also wondering if altitude is adding another variable for our different experiences. I live up high at 7500 ft and ride up to 9000 and up.

No completely stock, but yeah holy smokes 7500 can make a HUGE difference. I am at 1000 > 1500
 
Thats funny though. I never disconnected my cable and on two occasions now I have had a hard time starting it.



I've had a few instances of hard starting with the cable connected to my exhaust's flapper valve when new with around 600kms...so did my buddies with their stock Panigale's exhaust with almost 1,000kms...

When I disconnected the flapper valve...I "still" have the hard starting issues. I think it has nothing to do with the flapper valve as the flapper valve is just there for noise restrictions. The flapper Valve stays open upon start up and shuts closed a bit, somewhere between 2,500rpm - 4,000rpm. Obviously this is just for noise restrictions.

Most of my buddies who have stock exhaust have the same hard starting issues. BUT my other 2 buddies who have termignoni slip-ons never had any starting issues. Maybe this is due to the different mapping supplied by termignoni for them to upload (via USB flash drive supplied) onto the bike's ECU.

Well, that's what I experienced so far and noticed...

Miguel
1199 "S" w/ ABS
All Stock.
Manila, Philippines
 
Some of you may recall that I started a thread about the issues I was having after disconnecting the exhaust flapper valve. I have done some experimenting and the short answer to solving my hard starting problems was to keep the exhaust flapper valve connected.

I have a base bike with the stock exhaust (no slip on or full system) so this has what has worked for me based upon my setup and the current fuel mapping that the bike was delivered with.

With the exhaust valve disconnected I did not notice a smoothing out of the flat spot around 4,000 RPM's. Of course I didn't get the valve closing at the 30 mph range. The bike wouldn't start when the engine was warmed up: coolant temps between 200-220. To get the bike started I had to open the throttle and hit the starter simultaneously; the bike would start and then immediately die. I would have to repeat and keep the throttle open until the engine stabilized and would idle on its own. Once idling by itself it would run rough.

With the valve connected I was able to start the bike no matter what condition it was in. With the engine cold she starts in about 1.5 seconds of the starter turning. Engine warm, say 30 min to an hour after a ride, bike starts with just thumping the starter in about 2.0 seconds. With the engine really warm with coolant temps of around 215-220 and bike shut off for approximately 3 minutes, like when I am fueling up, I thumb the starter and it takes approx. 2-2.5 seconds and she fires right up. After she starts idle speeds are steady and smooth.

I am not saying that this will work for everyone but it has worked for me so that valve is going to stay connected.

I have no doubt this has been your experience. But your reasoning does not make any sense. Your experiences to me, sound a little coincidental.

The more I read about "hard starts", and with all the videos and personal experience with starting the 1199, I'm leaning towards an under spec'd battery.

It sounds like the starter is sucking up too much juice and causing too much voltage drop on the battery, and thus not leaving enough for the rest of the ignition system.
 
I've had mine disconnected for around 300km's and just had my first service done. I fouled a plug after 600km's due to the flapper valve, since I've disconnected it no flat spotting at low rpm's and and no more plug failures. However it does take a few more revolutions for it to start.

If you disconnect the cable then turn the key to "on" you will notice the cable retracts. The flapper valve closes on start up which creates some back pressure to help the bike start, then opens once the bike has started.

Personally I think I can handle the bike not starting in a hurry, its not like I'm going to be robbing banks and need to get away quick.
 
I've had mine disconnected for around 300km's and just had my first service done. I fouled a plug after 600km's due to the flapper valve, since I've disconnected it no flat spotting at low rpm's and and no more plug failures. However it does take a few more revolutions for it to start.

If you disconnect the cable then turn the key to "on" you will notice the cable retracts. The flapper valve closes on start up which creates some back pressure to help the bike start, then opens once the bike has started.

Personally I think I can handle the bike not starting in a hurry, its not like I'm going to be robbing banks and need to get away quick.

I agree with you. It looks like the battery is under specification.
 
I guess somebody needs to buy a Shorai battery and post back their results.

What are the symptoms you guys are experiencing with a fouled plug?
 
I haven't experienced any starting issues with this bike, I'd planned to get a shorai (I've one on my streetfighter) but this cranks better than my stock sf better ever did, so I'll wait til it craps out.

If you haven't already done it, you need to keep your stock battery on a battery tender.
 
I haven't experienced any starting issues with this bike, I'd planned to get a shorai (I've one on my streetfighter) but this cranks better than my stock sf better ever did, so I'll wait til it craps out.

If you haven't already done it, you need to keep your stock battery on a battery tender.

Great advice!:D
 
Do you have an aftermarket exhaust of any type? I am also wondering if altitude is adding another variable for our different experiences. I live up high at 7500 ft and ride up to 9000 and up.

i'm assuming the existing barometric sensor (pressure ->air density) and TMAP (temperature ->air density) would take care of these.......... unless not well calibrated....
 
i'm assuming the existing barometric sensor (pressure ->air density) and TMAP (temperature ->air density) would take care of these.......... unless not well calibrated....

Geeez, its also a weather station on wheels :p
 
I haven't experienced any starting issues with this bike, I'd planned to get a shorai (I've one on my streetfighter) but this cranks better than my stock sf better ever did, so I'll wait til it craps out.

If you haven't already done it, you need to keep your stock battery on a battery tender.

This is true, but you know what, I haven't had my bike on my battery tender and check my battery volts a few mornings before starting and its always up to 12.7V :)

Since saturday I've have no starting issue, havent really done anything different and exhaust vavle cable still disconnected. AFTER KEY ON, ALLOW THE ECUs AND FUEL PUMP TO CYCLE BEFORE TRYING TO START.

Had the bike serviced yesterday at 920 miles (rode 250 miles yesterday with a total of 1100+ now) :) and though my tech asked if I wanted him to check anything else out I declined, anxious to go get some real riding done. (surprised his diognostics didnt detected my Ex vavle situation)

interesting tho, he showed me the program used to clear the service warning and all the other parameters he can veiw/tweek...I want that program ;)
 

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