Some perspective on exhaust pricing; Akra

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White13Pani

White13Pani

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Okay, so we've all seen the countless threads on the termi, the akra, and the biggest talk is about the pricing and how (in my opinion) it is ridiculously priced.

Before we continue, I understand we are paying the "Ducati Tax" but we'll get back to that.



Okay. $4,500 for a couple bent pipes and mufflers. Crazy. We know. Now, places have advertised prices of $3500. Still insane. The initial termi @ $3500 to me, was insanely priced.

So, I decided what is a companies similar model for a car selling for?

Well, apparently this basically same system, 10x the size, 10x the raw materials cost costs $1500 LESS. See here: Akrapovic Titanium Evolution Exhaust C6 Corvette ZO6/ZR1 2006-2013 - Lingenfelter Performance

Now, these are perfectly comparable because "we" are paying the Ducati tax, and even on that $3,065.00 those people are paying the very well known "Corvette Tax." I know, I've had two of them in the family.

You're right, I'm never buying one so it doesn't matter. I just wanted to maybe enlighten some people on how our hobby really gets the shaft from these manufacturers when it comes to pricing.

When the akra is able to reach my door for under $2,000, call me. I have a feeling my phone is never gonna ring though... :mad:
 
+1

Akrapovic has made exhaust for high end cars for some time. The R&D should be about the same, maybe more with all the emissions regulation and ECU integration with modern cars. The materials are certainly more, simply because of the volume of exhaust gas that larger automotive motors produce.

The only thing that could justify some price difference is the volume, as many more cars are sold than high-performance motorcycles. However, I don't think the volumes justify a 30% lower price for a product that uses probably 3 times the amount of material.

There's a member on here that is in the automotive industry as an engineer, maybe he could chime in?
 
Could it be up to the fact that there probably are 10 times as many Corvettes sold than Panigales. And maybe 10 times more exhaust systems sold for the car, than the bike... ?

So the development costs, and manufacturing costs has to be spread over fewer units for the bike exhausts, than the car exhaust...

Just a thought...

Edit: According to this wiki. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C6)#Production_notes ) There were 91.491 Corvette C6 manufactured between 2006 and 2013. I can't seem to find any up to date numbers on the Pani, but up until the end of 2012, there were a total of 7.500 manufactured...
 
that's why some people take their stock cans , take the cats out, look at the internals from an engineer's perspective, decide to take the dB killer out, design their own covers - voila ...

saved the $$$ amount of an average family's used mid-sized sedan and have a screamin' frickin' awesome (in my mind) exhaust. yeah, the vanity factor and the shiny sticker is missing, and it's still a heavy ....... (but below the center of mass) ...

no, this is not an ad.

it's just my thinking.

still, akra knows how well their systems sold in the past, so they figured to keep the $$$ coming in
 
Last edited:
there are many factors:

automotive systems might be manufactured on equipment that is universal, paid off, amortized. just some tooling required

bike systems are lower volume in production.

the 1199 seems to be very specific.

just the fact that the header flanges are some patented mix of cast titanium is $$$.

the equipment for the 1199 mufflers is for sure not as universal, and i guess the time that goes into welding this thing is considerably higher than other systems.

hell, the full system for the S1kRR is like $1700 or so...
 
Akrapovic exhaust for my evo 10 is about $3300 as well. 2.5 inch for a catback exhaust. A catback!

My turboback exhaust cost me $600. Sure it doesn't have carbon tips and is slightly heavier but it flows better without a cat and 3 inches. Plusit sits under the car and can't be seen so I can't use the excuse of it looks nicer. Funny cuz I spent that on my bike but wouldn't do it for my car lol.
 
Phl said:
....
hell, the full system for the S1kRR is like $1700 or so...
Click to expand...

A part of that difference might also be the fact that the S1000RR only has one muffler, while the Pani has two...
 
I couldn't believe the price either! When I took delivery last week (FINALLY!) and asked about the price of the Akra's, they should be plated in Platinum for that price! Almost any aftermarket exhaust including the Stainless Steel Yoshimura RS4 I had on my 1990 GSX-R with a titanium end can was only $950 and considering the sunken costs of the Panigale exhaust and how they are now a sponsor is beyond the pale.

If we don't buy them the price will go down, and if more people buy them the price might go down. I will consider gutting my cans and powder coating the covers black, but those booger welds and hacking has me a little nervous.

Stock cans on the S don't sound too bad really, but much louder than my 848 with the Leo Vince slip-ons.
 
Blame Termi and the people that bought them. They set the market, people paid their price, Akra comes in with a better product and gets to set a higher price.

Panigale owners has already made it clear that paying 2k for Termi slip-ons or 3.5k for a full system is an ok thing to do. Why would Akra undercut Termi with their superior product when the owners have already indicated willingness to pay?

There's also something to be said for complexity. That Vette exhaust is, essentially, a straight pipe with a few minor bends. The same can't be said about the Panigale's exhaust system.

The problem with the current Akra price is many people that own them, myself included, paid considerably less due to discounting/price matching. 4.5k is absurd. The 3.3k I paid wasn't that bad compared to paying 3.5k for Termis.
 
Last edited:
Macke said:
A part of that difference might also be the fact that the S1000RR only has one muffler, while the Pani has two...
Click to expand...

from a design standpoint:

1 muffler (identical with the ones for kawa, suzi, ...) = lower price

simple, straightforward headers, also very similar to the other I-4 systems (workers are faster on it, robots easier to program, standardized processes)

now look at the snake and the components for the 1199.

twice the price or more seems reasonable from a manufacturer standpoint.
now add the costs of R&D and the sponsorships of MotoGP, there you go:

$4500.
 
First off yes both the Termi and Akra prices are insane IMO.

The "ducati" tax is clearly real and is ridiculous. Just in comparo the mirror block off plates for the 1199 can reach into the hundred dollar range whereas the same exact style plate for a Japanese brand is 1/3 that cost. And for what something I am using zip ties for in place of a piece of metal? That is just one example. All the after market parts are the same way.

I've been annoyed of this since my purchase of the 1199. I just kept quiet since it seems I play in a rich boy sandbox. I'm in the military wanting the same toys as executives. Do I not deserve them too? Stepping down from my soapbox......
 
the market clearly dictates the availability and the price ...

there must also be a reason why there are no real cheap alternatives... (the lowest seems to be the comp-werkes) ...

not even the chinese (moto-d) bother with offering something for the 1199 ... too complex LOL :D

all others (quat - d ,FM, ...) also seem to be up in the akra range or even higher...


speaking of - what would you guys want to pay for a set of properly designed and fabricated cans ???

performance, sound and looks in the range of the big 2, but without the sticker and the price tag? (and no, i'm not letting Rich work on this ;) )

i have several ideas and am ready to back to the drawing board / CAD .

the fabricator who does my screens can do all sort of sheet metal fabrication... i have to go through a calculation ...


my only fear is the vanity factor. people buy expensive ("it cost so much - has to be good / i don't put something cheap on my duc) or because of marketing (yeah - the same sticker on the motogp bike) and of course performance. <-- this i will have to prove, of course.

watcha think?


sorry for the threadjack.
 
Phl said:
the market clearly dictates the availability and the price ...

there must also be a reason why there are no real cheap alternatives... (the lowest seems to be the comp-werkes) ...

not even the chinese (moto-d) bother with offering something for the 1199 ... too complex LOL :D
Click to expand...

I think complex is the key. Note that all the usual suspects (Arrows, Leo Vince, Staintune, etc.) when queried say they have no plans to offer any aftermarket for the 1199.
 
Phl said:
the market clearly dictates the availability and the price ...

there must also be a reason why there are no real cheap alternatives... (the lowest seems to be the comp-werkes) ...

not even the chinese (moto-d) bother with offering something for the 1199 ... too complex LOL :D

all others (quat - d ,FM, ...) also seem to be up in the akra range or even higher...


speaking of - what would you guys want to pay for a set of properly designed and fabricated cans ???

performance, sound and looks in the range of the big 2, but without the sticker and the price tag? (and no, i'm not letting Rich work on this ;) )

i have several ideas and am ready to back to the drawing board / CAD .

the fabricator who does my screens can do all sort of sheet metal fabrication... i have to go through a calculation ...


my only fear is the vanity factor. people buy expensive ("it cost so much - has to be good / i don't put something cheap on my duc) or because of marketing (yeah - the same sticker on the motogp bike) and of course performance. <-- this i will have to prove, of course.

watcha think?


sorry for the threadjack.
Click to expand...

+1 on compwerks on price. I've seen it consistently put out 10 hp more than stock on several 1199/899 . If it wasn't so ugly.
 
Charliem90 said:
I think complex is the key. Note that all the usual suspects (Arrows, Leo Vince, Staintune, etc.) when queried say they have no plans to offer any aftermarket for the 1199.
Click to expand...

+1

I am really interested to know why there are no Arrow or Leo Vince options for the 1199. Charlie is on to something here.
 
Probably the cost involved into developing an exhaust and whether or not they'd be able to recoup that amount back. I don't think those other manufacturers see that to be worth the troubles. Look at how long it took Akrapovic to release their product. I mean from a quick glance, it looks exactly like the stock or termi systems. They obviously took the necessary time to release a superior product and I'm sure it cost them a boatload of money. They already admitted as a company that it has been by far the most difficult exhaust system to put together. I doubt Arrow, Leo Vince, etc...would be willing to cut corners n release a POS system to make it affordable.
 
Phl said:
from a design standpoint:

1 muffler (identical with the ones for kawa, suzi, ...) = lower price

simple, straightforward headers, also very similar to the other I-4 systems (workers are faster on it, robots easier to program, standardized processes)

now look at the snake and the components for the 1199.

twice the price or more seems reasonable from a manufacturer standpoint.
now add the costs of R&D and the sponsorships of MotoGP, there you go:

$4500.
Click to expand...

I can't believe this thread even exists. You look at the unique design of the Termi/Akra, and these components will not fit any other bike. All other exhaust's components (Corvette unit included) will fit other bikes. The muffler is very unique, and Akra is the only company that mnaintained the stock design of the bike, something I would personally never change. This is, of course, IMHO :D
 
The full Akra system for a KTM 1290 is $4200 here . It only has one muffler makes the 1199 system look cheap .
I have the choice not to buy it .
 
They have the tools and the material already. They have at least two versions to base their's on. They have simulation software. It is not their only source of income.

The relatively low number of units to spread the cost over will have some impact but I would be surprised if it doesn't have at least a 100% markup.

I cannot rationalise the ridiculous prices they want. There use to be a joke in the import scene. If you want to sell crap to the v8 crowd, chrome it.(yes jokes abound on both sides) I have seen pos name brand big block parts and I am amazed that they even hold together much less command top dollar. Same goes for import parts that should have "fail" laser etched on them from the factory.

Akra has the quality, too bad about the price.
RE the block off plates. These days anyone with a CNC can do it so I suspect it is the mere association of disposable income that the name Ducati implies and the suckers that stand in line to buy them, or not.
 

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