Sorry but seeking clarity on DES

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WAfatboy

WAfatboy

Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
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Perth, Western Australia
Forgive me (oalvarez) for going over old ground here but I've not been able to find a definitive answer.

In relation to DES the 1199 Manulal says:

"Note By increasing the click setting you decrease the hydraulic damping, by decreasing the click setting you increase the hydraulic damping."

So my understanding is:

Front compression: 31 is the least compression - soft
Front rebound: 31 is the least rebound - slow rebound

So a setting for medium firmness but with quick rebound the front settings might look like this:

Front compression: 16
Front rebound: 6

Would be great if I could get some confirmation that this is correct.

Thanks in advance.
 
I believe that's backwards. Look at your race mode and compare it to your wet mode. THe wet mode will have softer settings.
 
I agree with TransNone13

WET mode DEFAULT

Front compression: 28
Front rebound: 14
Rear compression: 28
Rear rebound: 14

RACE mode DEFAULT

Front compression: 10
Front rebound: 14
Rear compression: 6
Rear rebound: 8
 
I know the defaults.

Wet settings are soft, less compression

Race settings are hard, more compression

Agreed?

So what about rebound? Race has a lower number which is more rebound which on a racetrack is fine as the surface is smooth so the rebound is used to keep maximum traction.
 
I just set my RACE settings all to 1 and WET to 31 and will go for a test ride.

I still think it is the other way round.
 
Jariva said:
I just set my RACE settings all to 1 and WET to 31 and will go for a test ride.

I still think it is the other way round.
Click to expand...

So in race the ride will be hard and feel bumpy.

In Wet it will be soft and will wallow.

Take it easy though, neither is a good setting methinks!
 
the higher the rebound number the quicker it will go back to static
so if rebound is set to 31 and u push the forks down, it will come back up quick
set it to 1 and it will come back up slow
 
raypeter said:
the higher the rebound number the quicker it will go back to static
so if rebound is set to 31 and u push the forks down, it will come back up quick
set it to 1 and it will come back up slow
Click to expand...

So the definition of hydraulic damping in the context of rebound is critical here.

Does increasing rebound mean more hydraulic damping - or does less damping mean the spring returns quicker?

The manual says:

"Note By increasing the click setting you decrease the hydraulic damping, by decreasing the click setting you increase the hydraulic damping."

So the default RACE settings have low click numbers - they are harder settings with more compression but the numbers for rebound are also low - because they don't need rebound or because the track requires a lot?
 
you have hydraulic damping in both directions ie to compress and to extend(rebound)
by increaseing the number on the dash for either rebond or compression, will make the fork easyier to move, ie it will compress easier and it will rebound easier.
you could just go out to the garage and try this by rolling the bike and applying the brake hard.
make sure u have the ignition ON as i believe the suspension goes to a netural setting when swithed off regardless of mode and settings.

set comp to 31 and rebound to 31 and u will find the bike should compress very easy and retyurn very easy to its static postion.
then try it set to 1 for both and u will find the forks are hard to compress and will be slow to return totheir static postion
hope that helps
peter
 
Something I have noticed in looking at the wiring diagram is that each fork leg has one single stepper motor which implies to me one leg does compression and the other does rebound. Can anyone confirm this is the case ? I hadn't considered it previously.
Also was interested to note the forks are driven by the Dash and the shock controlled by the BBS.

P
 
Something I have noticed in looking at the wiring diagram is that each fork leg has one single stepper motor which implies to me one leg does compression and the other does rebound. Can anyone confirm this is the case ? I hadn't considered it previously.
Also was interested to note the forks are driven by the Dash and the shock controlled by the BBS.

P
 
also as the defintion from the book states, increaseing the click setting...ie higher number u have less hydrolic dampening.

Does increasing rebound mean more hydraulic damping - or does less damping mean the spring returns quicker?

yes increaseing rebound means more hydrolic damping, and this is achived via useing a lower number in the settings ie 1 instead of 31. and yes spring returns quicker when set to 31
peter
 
WAfatboy said:
So in race the ride will be hard and feel bumpy.

In Wet it will be soft and will wallow.

Take it easy though, neither is a good setting methinks!
Click to expand...

Perhaps don't think of it as hard or soft, but in terms of more dampening or less dampening. OR smaller hole (more dampening) or bigger hole (less dampening) for oil to flow through.

The lower the number the more dampening (smaller hole) and the higher the number the less dampening (larger hole).
The idea being that the dampening circuits controls the monkey motion, to maximise the amount of time the tyres stay in contact with the ground.

If you find you're blowing through your suspension travel, whether it be on a rough section of road/track or under braking. Then you need to increase the compression dampening (smaller number on DES)
If you find that the wheels are just bouncing off everything and your kidneys have fallen out, then decrease compression dampening.

Rebound dampening is set to as little as possible (Higher number) yet still prevent the bike from wallowing? or bouncing around like a pogo stick.

In addition to all this, compression and rebound dampening is independent of each other. ie, just because you change one, it doesn't mean that you need to change the other. In fact it is more common to change compression damping a little here and there to manage weight transfer front to back under braking or acceleration.
(In more advanced suspension setups, the pitching under braking or acceleration can be controlled independently of bump or road impact absorption via low speed compression vs high speed compression circuits.)

Rebound damping will often remain untouched once you get it right.



Disclaimer: the points above assume that you already have the correct springs installed and correct sag settings.
Dampening is the last thing to adjust after springs and sag and should NEVER be used to compensate for either.
 
Last edited:
Pouakai said:
Something I have noticed in looking at the wiring diagram is that each fork leg has one single stepper motor which implies to me one leg does compression and the other does rebound. Can anyone confirm this is the case ? I hadn't considered it previously.
Also was interested to note the forks are driven by the Dash and the shock controlled by the BBS.

P
Click to expand...

Yes.. This is how Ohlins NIX forks are configured. Comp in one leg and rebound in the other.
 
WAfatboy said:
Forgive me (oalvarez) for going over old ground here but I've not been able to find a definitive answer.

In relation to DES the 1199 Manulal says:

"Note By increasing the click setting you decrease the hydraulic damping, by decreasing the click setting you increase the hydraulic damping."

So my understanding is:

Front compression: 31 is the least compression - soft
Front rebound: 31 is the least rebound - slow rebound

So a setting for medium firmness but with quick rebound the front settings might look like this:

Front compression: 16
Front rebound: 6

Would be great if I could get some confirmation that this is correct.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

wow....you got a lot of responses - here is mine:

-- settings 1 to 31

-compression: 1 will be hardest/stiffest/rigid (fully increased compression damping) - going up the scale to 31 will soften it, fully decreasing compression damping

-rebound: 1 will be slowest (fully increased rebound damping) - going up the scale to 31 will speed it up, returning the wheel to the ground faster, fully decreasing rebound damping

-- as you go up the scale, from 1 to 31, you are opening the valves to allow more oil to pass thru them, giving you decreased compression, since the oil flows through more easily, and decreased rebound, because the oil flows through more easily the fork/shock spring pushes the wheel back to the ground faster
 
Last edited:
littlejohn said:
Perhaps don't think of it as hard or soft, but in terms of more dampening or less dampening. OR smaller hole (more dampening) or bigger hole (less dampening) for oil to flow through.

The lower the number the more dampening (smaller hole) and the higher the number the less dampening (larger hole).
The idea being that the dampening circuits controls the monkey motion, to maximise the amount of time the tyres stay in contact with the ground.

If you find you're blowing through your suspension travel, whether it be on a rough section of road/track or under braking. Then you need to increase the compression dampening (smaller number on DES)
If you find that the wheels are just bouncing off everything and your kidneys have fallen out, then decrease compression dampening.

Rebound dampening is set to as little as possible (Higher number) yet still prevent the bike from wallowing? or bouncing around like a pogo stick.

In addition to all this, compression and rebound dampening is independent of each other. ie, just because you change one, it doesn't mean that you need to change the other. In fact it is more common to change compression damping a little here and there to manage weight transfer front to back under braking or acceleration.
(In more advanced suspension setups, the pitching under braking or acceleration can be controlled independently of bump or road impact absorption via low speed compression vs high speed compression circuits.)

Rebound damping will often remain untouched once you get it right.



Disclaimer: the points above assume that you already have the correct springs installed and correct sag settings.
Dampening is the last thing to adjust after springs and sag and should NEVER be used to compensate for either.
Click to expand...

FYI.....

ENGLISH GRAMMAR 101:

-- there is no such thing as: "dampening" ---- it's damping, and damper ;)

-- and if you want to INCREASE your compression damping, you want to GO UP the scale, thereby INCREASING the distance the fork/shock compresses
 
Last edited:
Thank you guys I have the clarity I was seeking.

Compression - low numbers for more compression (firmer)
Rebound - high numbers for more rebound (quicker return)

Appreciate everyone chiming in to overcome my mental blockage :)
 
WAfatboy said:
Thank you guys I have the clarity I was seeking.

Compression - low numbers for more compression (firmer)
Rebound - high numbers for more rebound (quicker return)

Appreciate everyone chiming in to overcome my mental blockage :)
Click to expand...

-- this is getting into semantics....but:

-you want MORE compression damping for a firmer feel - the lower the setting to "1" will do that - going to 31 will DECREASE compression damping, making the fork/shock compress/travel the most
 
Last edited:
RD16RR said:
FYI.....

ENGLISH GRAMMAR 101:

-- there is no such thing as: "dampening" ---- it's damping, and damper ;)
Click to expand...

FYI: google 101 - Go dispute semantics this with google.com

dampening - definition of dampening by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. ;)

RD16RR said:
FYI.....

-- and if you want to INCREASE your compression damping, you want to GO UP the scale, thereby INCREASING the distance the fork/shock compresses
Click to expand...

-- this comment makes no sense with regards to DES. The numbers (scale?) on DES relate to how open or closed the "dampening" circuit is, which affects the flow rate of oil. ie. The higher the number the more open the circuit.

I'm not sure I follow your comment. "dampening" refers to the resistance to motion being described. In this case it's when the fork/shock is going into compression. Therefore INCREASING compression "dampening" (closing the circuit or lower number on the DES "scale") would REDUCE the rate of suspension travel or in your words the "distance" fork/shock compresses.

While were on semantics
Changing the compression "dampening" changes the flow rate of oil which changes the RATE of suspension compression NOT the distance it compresses. ;)
ie. The "distance" the fork or shock compresses is more often referred to as travel.

PS. I don't dispute your correction of damping vs dampening. Yours is the correct word in reference to engineering. But this is an internet forum after all and I don't often proof my posts before submitting. People get the gist and that's what's important ;)
 
Last edited:

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