Traction Control (TC) Tire Choice Question
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I know the TD weekend has passed, but reading this thread gave me a headache.
1. There is no such thing as "DOT Slicks".
2. Yes - all road legal tires are "DOT tires" (have grooves), but when racers say "DOTs" it is a common "slang" term that means DOT legal race tires (in other words, race compound tires with grooves).
3. Slicks are tires that are bald (do not have grooves). Slicks tend to last longer on the track and have more grip. But they are not legal for road use.
4. The "Superbike Pro's" indeed are Slicks...because they do not have grooves. However, they are not the same compound as the race Slicks. They have a high silica content like street/hypersport tires, so warmers aren't 100% necessary and they are not as affected by heat cycles.
5. Pirellis and Dunlops are very different in feel and often times require different setups. Not to mention that few people like both of them. Typically somebody will prefer one or the other, because they feel very different when pushed hard.
1. There is no such thing as "DOT Slicks".
2. Yes - all road legal tires are "DOT tires" (have grooves), but when racers say "DOTs" it is a common "slang" term that means DOT legal race tires (in other words, race compound tires with grooves).
3. Slicks are tires that are bald (do not have grooves). Slicks tend to last longer on the track and have more grip. But they are not legal for road use.
4. The "Superbike Pro's" indeed are Slicks...because they do not have grooves. However, they are not the same compound as the race Slicks. They have a high silica content like street/hypersport tires, so warmers aren't 100% necessary and they are not as affected by heat cycles.
5. Pirellis and Dunlops are very different in feel and often times require different setups. Not to mention that few people like both of them. Typically somebody will prefer one or the other, because they feel very different when pushed hard.
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Sorry for the headache -- was trying to rush quickly and make some decisions before my track weekend. I am familiar with the nomenclature but tried to bend the rules to supplant my ignorance as to the exact model of tire. In the end, I did mean "DOTs".
I went with the Dunlop GP-A Pro medium+ front/rear. Have got 2 trackdays (Laguna Seca and Thunderhill) out of them so far, front still looks okay and rear is a bit flattened off. Running at TC6, the rear will step out a little bit under lean but very manageable. Didn't run the calibration, as I didn't really feel the TC was unpredictable to my untrained wrist.
I am interested to switching to Pirelli at some point to try them, unfortunately the track side vendor is only Dunlop. Since tires are such a huge, huge part of pushing it (along with suspension, brakes, etc), I invite any input on how different tires have felt on the Pani.
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I ran both Pirellis and Dunlop NTEC UK slicks on my BMW S1000RR and even though the ultimate grip levels seemed equivalent, the Dunlop's are a harder carcass and run lower pressures, especially at the rear.. The Dunlop,runs at 22 psi cold in the rear, due to carcass stiffness ..
The two tyres feel different; I think the Pirellis are more forgiving at the limit and give a ton of warning, the Dunlop's are a bit more sudden when they go and aren't as compliant over bumps. I had to adjust my suspension to be slightly softer in compression to make the Dunlop's work for me and I had to add about 2mm of sag, both front and rear.
These are my opinions, some may not agree with me on this.
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No worries.
I just wanted to clarify that because this thread has several key words that are likely to come up in searches, and wanted to just make sure the right terminology was out there.
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I ran both Pirellis and Dunlop NTEC UK slicks on my BMW S1000RR and even though the ultimate grip levels seemed equivalent, the Dunlop's are a harder carcass and run lower pressures, especially at the rear.. The Dunlop,runs at 22 psi cold in the rear, due to carcass stiffness ..
The two tyres feel different; I think the Pirellis are more forgiving at the limit and give a ton of warning, the Dunlop's are a bit more sudden when they go and aren't as compliant over bumps. I had to adjust my suspension to be slightly softer in compression to make the Dunlop's work for me and I had to add about 2mm of sag, both front and rear.
These are my opinions, some may not agree with me on this.
I have years of racing on Dunlop and Pirellis and I have to agree with those sentiments. However, the OP (and everyone) will see a drastic improvement in grip (especially drive grip) when going from the current version of the Dunlops (available in the US) to Pirellis (assuming the appropriate setup changes are made).
We haven't been able to get the UK NTecs in the US for a few years now. Those UK Ntecs were like the Godly love child of Bigfoot and a Unicorn. They had so much grip that it was insane; easily the best tires in the history of tires (hence the $550 per set price). Back then I could swap from the US to the UK tires and immediately gain almost 2 seconds per lap. They were seriously that good. But they haven't been available for a while now. When they stopped becoming available, that is when I swapped tires (I landed a Michelin sponsorship and raced on them the year the Cups first came out, then when that contract ended I went to Pirelli).
Like he said, the Pirellis have a much softer carcass than the Dunlops. It isn't as soft as it was with the previous generation, when so many people complained about how much they "squirm", but they are still much softer than the Dunlops and they do squirm when loaded up. I have even found that the Pirellis require a little bit different riding style and throttle application. You kinda have to load them up first, then once you feel the bike squat and the tires dig in...you better hold on...because the drive grip is ridiculous. They start to eat in the pavement and then shoot you forward like a rocket. And in corners, the Pirellis like one input/motion. Meaning you need to trail brake in, carry a lot of entry and mid-corner speed to keep the tires loaded up, then get on the gas before everything unloads.
The Pirellis provide SO much feedback because of their carcass. I mean you can literally feel EVERYTHING...and to be honest, some people don't like that. Some people have a hard time differentiating between the tire loading up and squirming, or when it starts to let go and spin. Personally, I love the Pirellis. I love that I can feel everything. I always know what is going on with both ends, and that gives me confidence to push harder.
With the Dunlops, when you feel something like that...they are spinning. They are harder and don't load up or squirm, they just grip...until they don't. Some people prefer that feeling (I would actually say that most people prefer that, Dunlops are still the dominant tire, at least in the Southeast US anyway).
There are few people who love both the Pirellis and Dunlops, usually people (faster riders/racers) will have a strong preference of one or the other. They both have loads of grip, both last a long time (when your setup is right), both are capable of winning, but they are very different in feel.
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I'm running the Supercorsa SP on a Tricolore 1199 S...fast pace in the intermediate class with my org. Looking to change tires but stick with Pirelli. Slicks come in 200/60 that I want to try (the Superbike SC2 front/SC1 rear).
You mentioned calibrating... Is that a traction control modification? I'm trying to figure out if the 10mm difference in the 200/55 vs the 200/60 is even an issue with the traction control system or if that needs to be accounted for. Not sure if that's even something that the techs at the dealership can work with.
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Technically, that 200/60 has a different ride height and you should do the recalibration for it. It is pretty simple. I don't have the manual in front of me, but all it takes is pushing a few buttons and then riding in 2nd gear at something like 25mph until it finishes doing its thing. It isn't hard.
I ran both Pirellis and Dunlop NTEC UK slicks on my BMW S1000RR and even though the ultimate grip levels seemed equivalent, the Dunlop's are a harder carcass and run lower pressures, especially at the rear.. The Dunlop,runs at 22 psi cold in the rear, due to carcass stiffness ..
The two tyres feel different; I think the Pirellis are more forgiving at the limit and give a ton of warning, the Dunlop's are a bit more sudden when they go and aren't as compliant over bumps. I had to adjust my suspension to be slightly softer in compression to make the Dunlop's work for me and I had to add about 2mm of sag, both front and rear.
These are my opinions, some may not agree with me on this.
totally agree
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About the best description of how the Pirellis feel and work, that I have ever read. Spot-on, Chaotic..
This option is not available on the 1199 S. Is there a way for the dealership/techs to adjust the parameters of the DTC to account for a 200/60 rear tire instead of the factory 200/55?
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They weren't mentioned in this thread, but I have seen the terms thrown around in other threads. So for clarification....
Rains - Super soft tires with huge grooves, designed to be used when there is standing water and it is actively raining.
They have GREAT grip in the rain, you can get your knee down, carry good corner speed, and you can brake almost just as hard as you can in the dry...as long as you are completely vertical. Contrary to popular belief, you can trail brake in the rain...but you have to be super smooth with it and have a good feel for the traction vs lean angle ratio.
These tires will burn up FAST on a dry track, which is why you see people searching out puddles once it stops raining (trying to cool the tires off).
Wets (aka "Intermediates") - have large grooves just like Rains, but they are a harder compound. These are meant to be used when the track is still wet, but it isnt actively raining (and a dry line could potentially form later in the race).
Imagine a compound that was softer than the "Soft" version of Slicks, with large grooves...that is what Intermediates are. You use warmers on them just like Slicks and they will last MUCH longer on a drying/dry track than Rains. You will often hear Intermediates referred to as "Cut Slicks", which goes back to the days when people would buy Slicks, then cut their own grooves in them.
Wets also have very good grip on a wet track (in the rain), but not as good as full Rains (because they are harder). But once it stops raining and the large puddles go away, they will start to get some heat in them (which would make Rains start to tear and go off), that is when they come into their own.
So in summation:
Actively raining and will likely continue to rain for the entire race = Rains.
Not raining or just slightly raining, and will likely stop raining at some point and the track will start to dry during the race = Wets (Intermediates).
Rains - Super soft tires with huge grooves, designed to be used when there is standing water and it is actively raining.
They have GREAT grip in the rain, you can get your knee down, carry good corner speed, and you can brake almost just as hard as you can in the dry...as long as you are completely vertical. Contrary to popular belief, you can trail brake in the rain...but you have to be super smooth with it and have a good feel for the traction vs lean angle ratio.
These tires will burn up FAST on a dry track, which is why you see people searching out puddles once it stops raining (trying to cool the tires off).
Wets (aka "Intermediates") - have large grooves just like Rains, but they are a harder compound. These are meant to be used when the track is still wet, but it isnt actively raining (and a dry line could potentially form later in the race).
Imagine a compound that was softer than the "Soft" version of Slicks, with large grooves...that is what Intermediates are. You use warmers on them just like Slicks and they will last MUCH longer on a drying/dry track than Rains. You will often hear Intermediates referred to as "Cut Slicks", which goes back to the days when people would buy Slicks, then cut their own grooves in them.
Wets also have very good grip on a wet track (in the rain), but not as good as full Rains (because they are harder). But once it stops raining and the large puddles go away, they will start to get some heat in them (which would make Rains start to tear and go off), that is when they come into their own.
So in summation:
Actively raining and will likely continue to rain for the entire race = Rains.
Not raining or just slightly raining, and will likely stop raining at some point and the track will start to dry during the race = Wets (Intermediates).
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Chris the above is ridiculous.
We ride Ducati's you know very well we don't ride in the rain.
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