Upshift delay/lag? GP shift and modified DP rearset

Do you agree that there is too much of a QS lag when UPSHIFTING?

Downshift has been buttery smooth for me, instantaneous. But it is when going up through the gears at track speed that the lag is pronounced. I am currently on Reverse Shift with DP rearsets (that has been modified with thinner spacers for a more forward position).

Just wondering if I have the shifter bolt or sensor setup correctly. I have attached are some pictures of the set up. Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s216RUUWITM

I do not have many videos. But above link is quick shot showing both the downshifts and upshifts. As you can see, downshifts are quick and smooth, but the upshifts seem to have a pronounce delay, you can see me bouncing off the seat when the QS is engaged.

Should I be worried? IIRC upshifts were much quicker on the 1199.

this was something I noticed when I first got my bike - it felt like the ignition cutout during upshifts was too long, and the momentary drop in power after the gear shift was complete would unbalance the bike slightly.

3500 miles later (and a fair bit of modifications), and I don't notice any lag anymore, not one bit. maybe the ECU had to go through a self-calibration process to adjust to the individual's riding style. or maybe it's as simple as learning the precise amount of time I need to have the lever lifted upwards (I have standard shift - I can't stand GP shift).

In any event, I can't replicate the upshift lag I felt when the bike was new, even if I try.

Could it be that you were disturbing the bike by unnecessary upward pressure on the shift lever that would upset the bike?

There is a lot of thrust in these bikes. Even that very short cut/delay (I guess 40-60 milliseconds) can be felt in the bars.

I would guess that the milliseconds are similar in all bikes. Which leaves mechanical action in shifter rod and rearsets.

Linkage arm on gearbox end is not in optimal 90-degree position in your bike, but close enough. This is the second most common problem. The most common is wrong gear shift lever position and causing rider to engage gears unproperly. I don't have personal experience from those rearsets, but lets assume they're fine also.

Shifter rod is in tight place, make sure it does not touch anything. The spring mechanism inside that rod should increase spring tension when gear is changed. On both directions previous gear is "sticking" under acceleration/deceleration until certain spring tension is achieved. Then inner rod moves to hit microswitch (gives a command to ECU), and the spring tension slams the next gear into place (with further toe movement).

So: any problems here usually tell that the spring tension is not working properly. Maybe it is bend just a bit, too tight inner/outer rod fit, not enough lubrication etc. Feeling of long delay might come from this, shifter rod is staying on microswitch too long time.

I have destroyed gearbox due to poor shifter (probably slightly bend rod) in one of my previous race bikes. I recommend to get that part checked before next trackday.

There are two positions to fix the DP rearsets' shift rod into; one is for normal quick shift speed (similar to standard), the other is for 'faster' upshifts. This is mentioned in the DP rearsets instructions manual in very small print on the bottom left corner if I recall correctly.

You might want to unbolt the shift rod from its current position and refix it into the 'other' position. This applies to both, standard and gp shift patterns.

Please note, changing the shift speed setting makes a substantial difference compared to the one you are in now and it can upset the bike if - for whatever reason - you find yourself upshifting while leaned over mid corner.

Hope that helps!

There has been a discussion on this. I find that if I hold the throttle wide open to the end it will lag/jerk on the up shifts. If I let off just a tenth of the throttle its buttery smooth.

I know it doesn't halp you lol

Tfk said:

There are two positions to fix the DP rearsets' shift rod into; one is for normal quick shift speed (similar to standard), the other is for 'faster' upshifts.

Click to expand...

This is also the problem in OEM rear sets, gear lever movement was too big into my taste. I added extra "wing" into gear lever to get shorter movement:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-j_oKL3tntvSm1leHlHSHU0WVE/view?usp=sharing

And fixed grippy footpegs:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-j_oKL3tntvRmdSeF82R0hFQlE/view?usp=sharing

Now it is excellent. Short and precise.

Raaseri said:

This is also the problem in OEM rear sets, gear lever movement was too big into my taste. I added extra "wing" into gear lever to get shorter movement:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-j_oKL3tntvSm1leHlHSHU0WVE/view?usp=sharing

And fixed grippy footpegs:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-j_oKL3tntvRmdSeF82R0hFQlE/view?usp=sharing

Now it is excellent. Short and precise.

Click to expand...

Awesome mod!

regulus said:

Do you agree that there is too much of a QS lag when UPSHIFTING?

Downshift has been buttery smooth for me, instantaneous. But it is when going up through the gears at track speed that the lag is pronounced. I am currently on Reverse Shift with DP rearsets (that has been modified with thinner spacers for a more forward position).

Just wondering if I have the shifter bolt or sensor setup correctly. I have attached are some pictures of the set up. Thanks

Click to expand...

you could always install a seamless transmission.

Switch

I think that the low-cost Ducati-Domino sensor cause the problems. The compressive-/tractive force and the stroke length is too high. The reproducibility of the switching operation is very slight.

I will try to change the set to an other solution as example the Translogic sensor.

After replacement I will share the experience.

10W50 said:

I think that the low-cost Ducati-Domino sensor cause the problems. The compressive-/tractive force and the stroke length is too high. The reproducibility of the switching operation is very slight.

I will try to change the set to an other solution as example the Translogic sensor.

After replacement I will share the experience.

Click to expand...

Thanks for showing the inside of the shifter. Seems to be the same mechanics as in the 1199, except that it is bidirectional. On the 1199 I installed a strain gauge switch, makes QS feeling a bit more direct.

I've been able to reproduce what the OP is talking about. At 100% throttle, shifting near redline, the bike bogs down during the quickshift. I thought it had gone away; instead I realized I had unconsciously learned to ride around it.

If a replacement sensor does the trick, awesome. My thought though is that quickshifters probably need maps - a 1D map would do it. The ignition cut time should vary based on RPM. I'm guessing the auto blipping downshifter must also have some variable dependent on RPM and gear.

The electronics of the Panigale works fine. Over a certain level of revolutions (higher 6000 RPM) shifting works smoth in both directions. My problem is, that sometimes the cut of fuel/ignition is too long. I think that this is caused by the mechanical switch system.

To improve down shifts, I have already changed the OEM slipper clutch to the adjustable Sutec system, which works great.

Improvement

The change of the rearset (Gilles: reduced clearance) an the change to the Translogic sensor set improved the delay/lag remarkable. The new sensor set (plug an play) allows furthermore to adjust the level of the gear lever without dismanteling the entire rearset.