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endodoc said:
The real conversation should be the protected (relatively) vs the unprotected not the vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
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I see your point. But to gain herd immunity this way would be devastating. I mean the US lost at least 650k people from covid and we’re not even close to herd immunity. We have a vaccine, we should use it.

Additionally, From AAAS people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated.
 
rac1ngsnak3 said:
I have few questions for this anti-covid vax

1.) Have you ever been vaccinated before?
2.) Do you wear a helmet when you ride?
3.) Do you challenge other vaccines?
4.) What are the scientific downside to taking the covid vaccine?
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So as for myself, yes I have received a metric .... ton of immunizations both as a child here in the US and as a Marine going through boot camp and later before deployments. As far as I know all of those vaccines or immunizations had years of trials behind them with exceptionally low negative side effects.
During Desert Shield/ Desert Storm they were handing out a new "anti nerve agent" pill. If my memory serves me correctly it was called Bromide (I might be wrong with the name) but it was labeled "not approved by the FDA" on the package. Now I am a bit skeptical by nature when it comes to a lot of things that are un tested so I chose not to take it. On a somewhat related side note I don't think they have determined what is the cause of the "Gulf War Syndrome" yet. Did this new anti nerve agent pill have long term side effects? I don't know.

As far as the scientific down sides of the Covid vaccine, the fact is, we don't know yet. Covid 19 has been around for what now, almost 2 years? So this vaccine is basically in its experimental stage. The companies who developed it were probably working their ..... off trying to come up for it and props to them but how many times have companies come up with a new cure/ treatment/ vaccine where we later learned that it had significant long term negative effects? Just turn on the TV and watch the adds for the class action law suits. I hardly think a 2 year start to finish research and development time period is sufficient to say there wont be any long term negative effects. Now if we were talking about a serious virus like Ebola with an exceptionally high mortality rate then the risk would probably be worth it. But the Covid 19 mortality rate is exceptionally low

If what you are saying is true, with vaccinated people who come into contact with un vaccinated people being put more at risk because of the virus overload, then that does not sound to me like an effective or safe vaccine. I have never heard of another vaccine where that is the case. Now to be fair, this is not my field of expertise at all so maybe there have been cases before. Now the skeptic in me will question some of the numbers you posted but at the end of the day no one will ever really know as all stats can and are manipulated to fit whatever they are trying to justify. Ask me how I know that.... Cuz I work for the government.

With some doctors prescribing alternative treatments for Covid and seeing some promising results, I am still not understanding why some people are adamantly opposed to discussing them. If they work for some people then I'm all for using them. I personally think that should be a conversation between an individual and their doctor about the best course of treatment for them.

Unfortunately the media has scarred the .... out of people with blatant false stories, inflating numbers, sensationalizing etc. Unfortunately if we as a society continue down this path it will end badly. I hope people can just take a step back and re evaluate where we are. If we continue to divide ourselves, it wont be long until the shooting starts. And that folks, will suck!
 
craig bush said:
This post ^^^ should appear as the illustrative example next to “Dunning-Kruger Effect” in the dictionary.

Anyone who thinks they can draw definitive conclusions from the linked references needs some refresher training on how to critically assess data.

This is a perfect example of why there is so much misinformation being spread.
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precisely why I value your opinion. You actually take the time to disseminate all of the available data and rationalize a decent hypothesis and even then, are willing to vector accordingly should additional data present itself. Mr
 
B Topp said:
So as for myself, yes I have received a metric .... ton of immunizations both as a child here in the US and as a Marine going through boot camp and later before deployments. As far as I know all of those vaccines or immunizations had years of trials behind them with exceptionally low negative side effects.
During Desert Shield/ Desert Storm they were handing out a new "anti nerve agent" pill. If my memory serves me correctly it was called Bromide (I might be wrong with the name) but it was labeled "not approved by the FDA" on the package. Now I am a bit skeptical by nature when it comes to a lot of things that are un tested so I chose not to take it. On a somewhat related side note I don't think they have determined what is the cause of the "Gulf War Syndrome" yet. Did this new anti nerve agent pill have long term side effects? I don't know.

As far as the scientific down sides of the Covid vaccine, the fact is, we don't know yet. Covid 19 has been around for what now, almost 2 years? So this vaccine is basically in its experimental stage. The companies who developed it were probably working their ..... off trying to come up for it and props to them but how many times have companies come up with a new cure/ treatment/ vaccine where we later learned that it had significant long term negative effects? Just turn on the TV and watch the adds for the class action law suits. I hardly think a 2 year start to finish research and development time period is sufficient to say there wont be any long term negative effects. Now if we were talking about a serious virus like Ebola with an exceptionally high mortality rate then the risk would probably be worth it. But the Covid 19 mortality rate is exceptionally low

If what you are saying is true, with vaccinated people who come into contact with un vaccinated people being put more at risk because of the virus overload, then that does not sound to me like an effective or safe vaccine. I have never heard of another vaccine where that is the case. Now to be fair, this is not my field of expertise at all so maybe there have been cases before. Now the skeptic in me will question some of the numbers you posted but at the end of the day no one will ever really know as all stats can and are manipulated to fit whatever they are trying to justify. Ask me how I know that.... Cuz I work for the government.

With some doctors prescribing alternative treatments for Covid and seeing some promising results, I am still not understanding why some people are adamantly opposed to discussing them. If they work for some people then I'm all for using them. I personally think that should be a conversation between an individual and their doctor about the best course of treatment for them.

Unfortunately the media has scarred the .... out of people with blatant false stories, inflating numbers, sensationalizing etc. Unfortunately if we as a society continue down this path it will end badly. I hope people can just take a step back and re evaluate where we are. If we continue to divide ourselves, it wont be long until the shooting starts. And that folks, will suck!
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I hear you… I see the effects of it first hand. If you have Covid and I see you it’s no good. I guess that’s why I get so worked up about it. Because my life is being put at risk the more Covid is out in the community.
 
rac1ngsnak3 said:
I see your point. But to gain herd immunity this way would be devastating. I mean the US lost at least 650k people from covid and we’re not even close to herd immunity. We have a vaccine, we should use it.

Additionally, From AAAS people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated.
[/QUOTE
I am most intrigued on how they came to that conclusion. How are they quantifying “more protected” seriously, how could you show that? You would have to completely eliminate the contribution from their own immunity from the first round which you can’t do and your comparing different individuals.

To make that statement you would literally have to have a set of absolutely identical twins, in a bubble with identical epigenetic characteristics given the same viral load and repeat the experiment with the vaccine.

it would be great if you could explain how they came to that conclusion
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I guess my point is. John gets the vaccine, two weeks later he gets Covid and says “the vaccine did its job, I was only slightly impaired for a couple of days” How the hell does John know what his outcome would have been without the vaccine? He doesn’t. I and my wife had virtually no symptoms but I’m not afforded the opportunity to say “hey my immune system did its job, I had no symptoms” That doesn’t quite fit the narrative I guess
 
No model is going to be perfect…

From the paper Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

Model 3 examined previously infected individuals vs. previously-infected-and-once-vaccinated individuals, using “natural immunity” as the baseline group. We matched the groups in a 1:1 ratio based on age, ... and GSA. SARS-CoV-2 outcomes were the same, evaluated during the same follow-up period.

Examining previously infected individuals to those who were both previously infected and received a single dose of the vaccine, we found that the latter group had a significant 0.53-fold (95% CI, 0.3 to 0.92) (Table 4a) decreased risk for reinfection, as 20 had a positive RT-PCR test, compared to 37 in the previously infected and unvaccinated group. Symptomatic disease was present in 16 single dose vaccinees and in 23 of their unvaccinated counterparts. One COVID-19-related hospitalization occurred in the unvaccinated previously infected group. No COVID-19-related mortality was recorded.
 
Agreed so given my situation, what’s the vac going to do for me (seriously, not being a ....) is it going to protect me more than what I have now (factoring I am basically asymtomatic)?
 
You have teachers telling their students that vaccinated students can still attend school even if they test positive for covid but unvaccinated kids can't and need to quarantine for a minimum of 10 days or more.
 
double0 said:
You have teachers telling their students that vaccinated students can still attend school even if they test positive for covid but unvaccinated kids can't and need to quarantine for a minimum of 10 days or more.
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Probably comes down to transmissibility. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you’re unvaccinated OR don’t have existing antibodies for Covid (h/t to Endodoc) then you have higher viral loads and are more contagious. But then I haven’t heard about this and if my kid was Covid positive they would be quarantined.
 
I tested positive for the antibodies. Valid or not, don’t know. I would get the vac if I had to if they required it for entrance to someplace I needed to go. And, it looks like the Pride fruit loops are already mandating it. I’m going to go down there and sneeze on the sign then watch
un-neutered men throw things at them.
 

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double0 said:
You have teachers telling their students that vaccinated students can still attend school even if they test positive for covid but unvaccinated kids can't and need to quarantine for a minimum of 10 days or more.
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Ive never met a teacher that wasnt completely void of common sense. Indoctrinated robots.
 
Nothing shady going on here folks, plenty of Kool-Aid for everyone. “Really, this is great for you, uh, just not for us”. That’s what I love about Biden. His mental faculties are so deteriorated that he just gets up in the morning and tells us all to bend over and get ....... At leas Trump bought us a drink and no I’m not a supporter of either candidate or party.
 

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Yeah absolute .... storm over there definitely bunch of kool-aid goin round. Time to pack up and head off to another country nothing good left here. Places like Austria or Australia looking good right now.


endodoc said:
Nothing shady going on here folks, plenty of Kool-Aid for everyone. “Really, this is great for you, uh, just not for us”. That’s what I love about Biden. His mental faculties are so deteriorated that he just gets up in the morning and tells us all to bend over and get ....... At leas Trump bought us a drink and no I’m not a supporter of either candidate or party.
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Mick1976 said:
Yeah absolute .... storm over there definitely bunch of kool-aid goin round. Time to pack up and head off to another country nothing good left here. Places like Austria or Australia looking good right now.
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Lmao have you seen Australia recently? Gotta get police permission to go outside. They are not faring any better.
 
Wow what a thread. Alright so… China. I’ve lived there and even married a Chinese woman whose proudly an American today. We both despise the Chinese culture of ripping off every idea out there and producing cheap crap. It’s dangerous in terms of quality and safety and actually accelerates our environmental problems because as we all know; cheap crap ends up in the garbage rather quickly. Another issue we hate is that China is so obsessed with money that they’ll gladly kill their neighbors children to make a profit. Whether it’s fake baby formula, fake vaccines… you get the picture. And here’s the worst part folks. YOU CANT DO BUSINESS IN CHINA WITHOUT GOVERMENT APPROVAL AND SUPERVISION. Want to open a business in China? Not gonna happen unless the government has the keys. As such. Buying anything Made in China directly supports the Government. Let that sink in for a moment. Every product we buy from China goes to support a communist government that wants nothing more than to see the U.S. fail.

I think if people accepted the reality that the cheap crap they buy from Walmart or elsewhere is funding the Chinese military, they might think twice about it.
 
Hmmmm, looks like things are turning out as predicted, a lifelong revenue stream for big pharma. I’m getting in on this racket for sure. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Booster shots, they planned that right out of the gate and now you’re going to have variant shots and boosters for those complete with mandates to get them. Man the bribery chain must have been massive for this one but, it is rather ingenious.
 

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