Wheelies

Hi All,

Can someone help me understand the DWC settings and, more importantly, the sensitivity of the electronics.

I'd quite like to get the wheel up but don't want to end up flipping the thing over! What setting would you guys recommend (2,3?) and does the engine automatically reduce power when the wheel is at a certain height/angle?

cheers
S

DWC is not planned to be wheelie aid. It is for preventing wheelies and you only adjust the sensitivity with it. It is monitoring rear wheel speed vs front wheel speed and probably something from IMU. Can NOT be trusted to be wheelie angle limiter.

Put DWC off and you have a very wheelie happy monster in your hands. But bear in mind, that 200hp will get you in trouble if you don't respect it.

EDIT: my personal experience out of it is that in very controlled track conditions it is mostly ok to keep throttle pinned and let the bike accelerate against DWC. However, minor bumps in track surface sometimes disrupt DWC and you have to roll of throttle.

In streets, full of potholes and what ever ...., trusting DWC will end you up into ER within first 5 attemps.

Raaseri said:

DWC is not planned to be wheelie aid. It is for preventing wheelies and you only adjust the sensitivity with it. It is monitoring rear wheel speed vs front wheel speed and probably something from IMU. Can NOT be trusted to be wheelie angle limiter.

Put DWC off and you have a very wheelie happy monster in your hands. But bear in mind, that 200hp will get you in trouble if you don't respect it.

Click to expand...

This.

The idea is NOT to wheelie. The idea is to maximize forward acceleration. A small amount of wheel lift is ok, beyond that you are losing forward drive.

Yep yep yep

When I want to wheelie I pick a setting that has the wheelie control off.

trying to raise the front wheel with the dwc on is problematic. and will Imo cause more problems giving you a false sense of security .

On a similar note I accelerated out of a turn yesterday and the front wheel lifted with the dwc on stayed about a foot above the ground and felt very normal . In other words I've gotten used to the dwc.

I experimented enough with the dwc to say definitively This system was meant to stop wheelies not aid you in riding a Doug Domokos wheelie

Macattack said:

Yep yep yep

When I want to wheelie I pick a setting that has the wheelie control off.

trying to raise the front wheel with the dwc on is problematic. and will Imo cause more problems giving you a false sense of security .

On a similar note I accelerated out of a turn yesterday and the front wheel lifted with the dwc on stayed about a foot above the ground and felt very normal . In other words I've gotten used to the dwc.

I experimented enough with the dwc to say definitively This system was meant to stop wheelies not aid you in riding a Doug Domokos wheelie

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"Doug Domokos". Man you went back in time with that one!

lol the original wheelie king!!

I have noticed I need to turn my wheelie control down, as it is killing my drive in the lower gears

I am not sure off the top of my head what it is set at, but noticed last ride the bike seems to pull harder in third then first and second

This should be put in the owners manual verbatim

"In streets, full of potholes and what ever ...., trusting DWC will end you up into ER within first 5 attempts. "

Raaseri said:

DWC is not planned to be wheelie aid. It is for preventing wheelies and you only adjust the sensitivity with it. It is monitoring rear wheel speed vs front wheel speed and probably something from IMU. Can NOT be trusted to be wheelie angle limiter.

Put DWC off and you have a very wheelie happy monster in your hands. But bear in mind, that 200hp will get you in trouble if you don't respect it.

EDIT: my personal experience out of it is that in very controlled track conditions it is mostly ok to keep throttle pinned and let the bike accelerate against DWC. However, minor bumps in track surface sometimes disrupt DWC and you have to roll of throttle.

In streets, full of potholes and what ever ...., trusting DWC will end you up into ER within first 5 attemps.

Click to expand...

Raaseri said:

DWC is not planned to be wheelie aid. It is for preventing wheelies and you only adjust the sensitivity with it. It is monitoring rear wheel speed vs front wheel speed and probably something from IMU. Can NOT be trusted to be wheelie angle limiter.

Put DWC off and you have a very wheelie happy monster in your hands. But bear in mind, that 200hp will get you in trouble if you don't respect it.

EDIT: my personal experience out of it is that in very controlled track conditions it is mostly ok to keep throttle pinned and let the bike accelerate against DWC. However, minor bumps in track surface sometimes disrupt DWC and you have to roll of throttle.

In streets, full of potholes and what ever ...., trusting DWC will end you up into ER within first 5 attemps.

Click to expand...

Raaseri is spot-on... My experience is that you can't trust wheelie control 100%. It works best on a flat surface; THEN, I can pin the throttle and the bike will carry the front wheel about 6" off the ground all the way through 4th before settling down... it's freaking brilliant when set to DWC2.. BUT!!!! If you hit a downhill, uphill or a bump, the wheelie can get out of control REAL fast!!! I ALWAYS cover my rear brake when I am full on the gas through the first 3 gears and I'm riding on the street.

At the track, it's a bit more predictable, because you are repeating the same thing over and over again and can learn where the wheelie control can't be trusted; for instance, at Thunderhill raceway, DWC2 will get you into a sh1tload of trouble coming down the hill from turn 9; the first time I really pinned it coming out of 9, I pulled the biggest wheelie of my life; near vertical and I briefly considered pulling into the pits for a change of underwear.

If you just want to hoon around and wheelie like a maniac, turn off DWC and do it all manually; my bike with a 14T front sprocket is utterly, hysterically, maniacally prone to wheelie everywhere at any rpm; total hooligan mode.

At the track I run DTC at 2 or 3, and DWC at 7.


On the street I run DTC at 5 or 6, and DWC at 2.

I have my dwc set at 5 for the crappy English roads, engine high. I have been in mono wheel mode in 1st-4th on the power an not once seen an amber light come on for intervention (if there's a light supposed to come on of course). So god knows how high that front has to go.

80shilling said:

Raaseri is spot-on... My experience is that you can't trust wheelie control 100%. It works best on a flat surface; THEN, I can pin the throttle and the bike will carry the front wheel about 6" off the ground all the way through 4th before settling down... it's freaking brilliant when set to DWC2.. BUT!!!! If you hit a downhill, uphill or a bump, the wheelie can get out of control REAL fast!!! I ALWAYS cover my rear brake when I am full on the gas through the first 3 gears and I'm riding on the street.

At the track, it's a bit more predictable, because you are repeating the same thing over and over again and can learn where the wheelie control can't be trusted; for instance, at Thunderhill raceway, DWC2 will get you into a sh1tload of trouble coming down the hill from turn 9; the first time I really pinned it coming out of 9, I pulled the biggest wheelie of my life; near vertical and I briefly considered pulling into the pits for a change of underwear.

If you just want to hoon around and wheelie like a maniac, turn off DWC and do it all manually; my bike with a 14T front sprocket is utterly, hysterically, maniacally prone to wheelie everywhere at any rpm; total hooligan mode.

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lol, DWC2 doesn't do jack on that turn 9... i could never get a good rhythm there and never carried enough speed over the rise, but it was my first day at thunderhill last weekend. i had a couple small wheelies over the crest when i tried to be brave, which were very manageable, but the wheelie control was not confidence inspiring there for sure.

i need to play around with the wheelie control but i got a bit too much headshake for my liking with DWC2. i am pretty sure the wheel was not lifted enough in the air and was dancing off the ground a bit. but from what I remember, DWC1 just shoots the wheel up a bit too high. what's your experience here?

Itsn said:

lol, DWC2 doesn't do jack on that turn 9... i could never get a good rhythm there and never carried enough speed over the rise, but it was my first day at thunderhill last weekend. i had a couple small wheelies over the crest when i tried to be brave, which were very manageable, but the wheelie control was not confidence inspiring there for sure.

i need to play around with the wheelie control but i got a bit too much headshake for my liking with DWC2. i am pretty sure the wheel was not lifted enough in the air and was dancing off the ground a bit. but from what I remember, DWC1 just shoots the wheel up a bit too high. what's your experience here?

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I spent a lot of time trying various DWC settings, the last weekend I was there. DWC 3 was killing my drive out of turn 15 and 2, as well,as out of the chicane at 11/12. DWC 1 was wildly unpredictable, depending on quite a few things, it allowed WILD wheelies in turn 9 when I didn't want them and a massive wheelie out of turn 15 that it carried all the way into 4th gear onto the main straight. ..

DWC off was just a .... show of epic proportions.. It was like trying to ride a freaking Cape Buffalo; you end up wrestling the ....., just trying to keep the front end in contact with the earth, plus you end up getting tired quite quickly. A far fitter professional rider would probably fare better with DWC 1 than most of us mortals. I ended up at DWC 2 because it let me pin it with minimal issues if I kept my upper body plastered to the tank and my head tucked behind the screen... Notwithstanding the propensity to still wheelie like a ..... coming it of 9 down the hill to 10, I like DWC 2 the best for my skill, abilities and fitness levels.

P.S., I agree wth your analysis.. I prefer getting the front wheel either off the ground down the hill, or firmly planted, or you get vicious head shake... I cranked my steering damper up to harder and carry the front wheel off the ground, until it kisses down gently.. That's my recipe for getting to turn 10 without crapping my pants..

P.P.S. I am running ABS at 1, DWC at 2 and DTC at 1 on Pirelli Superbike slicks, SC 2 in front, SC 2.5 in rear.

My own experience with wheelie control has been with my R1M, which I sold. Before my 1299 I had a '13 1199R which didn't have it. I would suggest people work on throttle control before trying to use tech to be a pro. The fastest guys I know can get with in 3 seconds of their best times without all the tech.

standing on Ducati's shoulders and calling your self tall is t the same as being. I personally think it's more satisfying when your not using everything just to match other people's times.

Thamer said:

My own experience with wheelie control has been with my R1M, which I sold. Before my 1299 I had a '13 1199R which didn't have it. I would suggest people work on throttle control before trying to use tech to be a pro. The fastest guys I know can get with in 3 seconds of their best times without all the tech.

standing on Ducati's shoulders and calling your self tall is t the same as being. I personally think it's more satisfying when your not using everything just to match other people's times.

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While I agree everyone should learn proper throttle control, my goal is winning. Not taking advantage of modern technology, just so I can say "I raced without electronics", would be silly.

FWIW - I have raced a Liter bike with either no electronics (well built 06 R1), or with them completely off (RSV4). I also have time racing bikes with no quickshifter, no slipper clutch, etc. While I did good on those bikes and I am sure I could do good on the Panigale with all of that .... turned off, why should I? Why should I purposely not use something that can help me go faster?

If everyone else turned off all of their electronics, had no slipper clutch, had no quickshifter, etc...then I would glady turn off/remove all of my .... and line up against them on equal terms. But to intentionally put myself at a disadvantage, just so I can say that I raced "old school", that would be ridiculous.

I'm all for electronics . I learnt on bikes with zero electronic aids and they just get better and better .
I love being able to WOT and trust the bike .

While I didn't mean to criticize anyone. I learned a lot doing without. BSB proves these beasts are manageable without the gizmos. I notice,( other than these things becoming complicated) is that many people get into riding with all the stuff and then find a harsh reality when it does t work.

I always keep in mind that my buddy can do a 2:03 at losail with a stock 1199, 2:06 with a stock R6( that's ....... fast). While the GP gods go 10 seconds quicker spending a million euros more. So I try not to get to wrapped up with it all. Having said that, the autoblipper is a god send

It's hard to ride with them off because the throttle isn't linier like a cable throttle. You can feel the TB's changing without changing throttle position. I actually hate that but didn't get this bike for racing.
They do the same thing on new cars. Torque based throttle control. I fight it all the time on GM's, corvettes ect since I'm the tuner at a GM performance shop.

I'm old and when was into riding hard had flatslide carbs on all my bikes. LOL

I could probably ride my 1299 hard without electronics. If I really wanted to end up in the ditch... I'm trying my way lower and lower to get a feel for how it is, but when going really hard I'm using the electronics for what it's worth

Thamer said:

My own experience with wheelie control has been with my R1M, which I sold. Before my 1299 I had a '13 1199R which didn't have it. I would suggest people work on throttle control before trying to use tech to be a pro. The fastest guys I know can get with in 3 seconds of their best times without all the tech.

standing on Ducati's shoulders and calling your self tall is t the same as being. I personally think it's more satisfying when your not using everything just to match other people's times.

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I raced 250 and 500cc two strokes, a race kitted GSXR1100 and many other bikes that had zero electronics, so I have indeed developed throttle control over the years.. With the 1299 and me being of advanced age and less than stellar fitness these days, especially since I'm not racing, I'll stick with the safety net of the electronics and live with the shame of not being a WSBK level rider.

The real brass balls belong to Mick Doohan in the 500 GP days, talk about riding a wild animal.