Early Clutch Failure

[David Rand]

I'm new to Ducati but not new to riding. I've been at it for over 40yrs. I currently have four bikes. A 2014 Custom Road King., A 2009 Custom Road King, A 2018 stock Fat Boy. I've had sports bikes before, the last one was a sport-touring bike Honda 1200 VFX.
I've included pics of all of them.

So, I'm familiar with how to shift a bike without "riding" or "feathering" the clutch but I am new to Ducati and this bike's dry clutch.

I spent a ton of money on the new Panigale V4 25° Anniversario 916 - Ducati
and with just around 2k miles on it as of yesterday, the clutch slipped while quick-shifting on the freeway. I had brought the bike in last week because it seemed that it wasn't going into first very smoothly. I had a seasoned Ducati rider try the bike first and he agreed. The shop could not find anything wrong and suggested it was normal. They are great mechanics from what I've seen so far, so I trust their judgment. I changed some settings, took DWC down for example, and it seemed a bit better. Then yesterday it slipped, followed by more slips so I was close to the shop so I brought it in.

I feel strongly that this a warrantee issue and hope that Ducati customer service will agree because I can't be replacing the clutch every 2k miles or be stranded because of it and I did not mistreat the bike.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Otherwise, the bike is great!!

 

[TsaiCo]

Hi david, we met in joe’s bike group on FB, are you using the quick shift most of the time?

Indeed, if it slip, my slip was more on race track, and a wear and tear item when I abuse my power on track! Little over 2k miles as well.

 

[JHTmcrider]

I would kindly offer that is one of the big downsides to a dry clutch. Besides the racket it makes and the wow factor it gives off, they really are a pain to maintain. However, it appears some have had zero issues so guess its based on riding conditions and or the type of clutch material?

Dry Clutch Vs. Wet Clutch

Your motorcycle will either have a wet clutch, or a dry clutch. Do you know the difference? The benefits to each one?

www.motorcyclistonline.com

Dry vs Wet Clutch

I have searched but can not find too much info: What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Dry Clutch to a Wet Clutch? I am looking to buy my first Ducati, an ST4s and am leaning towards a 2004 (see my wanted add in the clasified section) w/ the Dry Clutch; I just do not know mutch at all...

www.ducati.ms

 

[David Rand]

Hi david, we met in joe’s bike group on FB, are you using the quick shift most of the time?

Indeed, if it slip, my slip was more on race track, and a wear and tear item when I abuse my power on track! Little over 2k miles as well.

Thanks for that. I wasn't abusing the bike at all. I was using quick shift at least half the time and normal conventional clutching at slower speeds. I understand that is normal and should not prematurely age the clutch plate.

 

[David Rand]

I would kindly offer that is one of the big downsides to a dry clutch. Besides the racket it makes and the wow factor it gives off, they really are a pain to maintain. However, it appears some have had zero issues so guess its based on riding conditions and or the type of clutch material?

Dry Clutch Vs. Wet Clutch

Your motorcycle will either have a wet clutch, or a dry clutch. Do you know the difference? The benefits to each one?

www.motorcyclistonline.com

Dry vs Wet Clutch

I have searched but can not find too much info: What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Dry Clutch to a Wet Clutch? I am looking to buy my first Ducati, an ST4s and am leaning towards a 2004 (see my wanted add in the clasified section) w/ the Dry Clutch; I just do not know mutch at all...

www.ducati.ms

Thanks, I'll review these

 

[ArcticWhite]

I doubt you will be able to make the case to replace a wear item under warranty. I also would not necessarily say 2K of street use is premature dry clutch failure nor an indicator of improper clutch use. It's the trade off with a dry clutch. No oil contamination and no oil drag on the clutch, but they wear much more quickly, especially in stop and go street use. There is a reason most street bikes have wet clutches. On the up side, replacing clutch plates on a dry clutch is super quick and easy. If you do not like 2K to 4K clutch plate changes, I would suggest that a dry clutch my not be the right choice.

 

[David Rand]

I doubt you will be able to make the case to replace a wear item under warranty. I also would not necessarily say 2K of street use is premature dry clutch failure nor an indicator of improper clutch use. It's the trade off with a dry clutch. No oil contamination and no oil drag on the clutch, but they wear much more quickly, especially in stop and go street use. There is a reason most street bikes have wet clutches. On the up side, replacing clutch plates on a dry clutch is super quick and easy. If you do not like 2K to 4K clutch plate changes, I would suggest that a dry clutch my not be the right choice.

Thanks for your reply. Very little stop and go city use. Mostly country and freeway. I have three other bikes for those situations. Had I been told I'd have a good chance of being stranded on the bike due to clutch wear. I'd never have bought it. Do you have a link that Ducati provides that explains 2-4k is normal and expected, and the bike should not be purchased for use off the track or otherwise?

The folks at the shop I bought it at certainly don't believe any of that to be true.....but if it is, they should know.

 

[David Rand]

Hi david, we met in joe’s bike group on FB, are you using the quick shift most of the time?

Indeed, if it slip, my slip was more on race track, and a wear and tear item when I abuse my power on track! Little over 2k miles as well.

During the 600 breakin period I was not using the quick shift. After, I used it most of the time. I did very little stop and go city miles on it. Mostly country, canyon, and freeway. Given it has "Street Mode" was I wrong to assume it can be a street bike? I don't think so. I'd be fine with it if it came with a warning that 2-4k miles is expected on a dry clutch but that is not only not a warning but not expected according to the mechanics at Ducati. Bottom line, a new bike should behave like a new bike and not break down with normal use for any reason.

 

[razz]

2000 miles of street riding should not wear out a brand new dry clutch. I’ve had dry clutch Ducatis in the past (748R, 1098S) and the clutches on those have easily exceeded 2000 miles between new plate sets. The clutch is a wear and tear item so Ducati will probably not warrant it unless there is some other underlying issue with it. If the plates really are toast after that distance, consider sourcing some better friction plates.

 

[ArcticWhite]

I understand your frustration from your bike not being what you expected. However, there is a bit of a distinction to be made. It is not "breaking down". An item on it, which normally wears, is wearing faster than you expected. I have seen everything from under 2K miles to 20K miles for dry clutch lifespan. Did yours wear faster than I would typically expect? Absolutely. This can be a result of many factors: use, contamination (if you have a slight oil leak from the seal, that can happen), clutch not fully clamping causing premature wear, etc, etc. Replace it because it is easy to do, make sure there is no oil contamination and that the clutch is operating properly and you will likely get many more miles this next time around. The manufacturer typically cannot warranty wear items, because they are affected drastically by how the bike is used and there is no way to prove how the bike was used except for the owner's word. Sometimes they may do it for good will.

 

[DucatiKev]

Dave,
I call it it the privilege of ownership.
Welcome to the forum, buddy! You sound like a hell of a cool guy. If I could accomplish half as much as you have I’d consider it a success.

I purchased a 2015 1299S in Aug 2019 for half of what MSRP was back in the day with only 1,800 miles and it had the loud ... Akra Slip one installed.
I got to handle “breaking it in” as I went through replacing faulty eta from the factory [out of warranty] and these parts weren’t faulty because the bike sat for 4 years but rather that they were not engineered properly from the factory

Now that I own a 1299, your very special Ducati V4 916 is the dream but being 100% serious I think it might make a better piece of art than a street bike
@BMW Alpina

650ib is a YouTube creator that collected his beautiful V4R right away (2019) and proceeded to modify it to the full extent of products available.
he raced It against some of the finest bikes of the world, ripping through gears with DQS and revving through redline. I recall his clutch was ready to be renewed around the 4,000 mile mark after sustaining all that abuse. Remember, the R is “special” bc it has dry clutch. wet clutch on my 1299 is still perfect at 5,K miles and wet clutch on my Triumph is still perfect with 15,K miles



I’d bet that if Ducati sold all their bikes with a Dry Clutch that the “upgrade” would be to install a wet clutch
Back in 2012 [pre-dieslgate] VW offered the GTI and Golf R with an automated Direct Shift Gearbox DSG transmission that contained dual DRY clutches while porsche was a decade more advanced with its far superior, over-engineered Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) dual WET plate clutch gearbox.

I love my Ducati, it’s been my dream since I was 12. But love isn’t rational, soooo it is what it is OP David Rand and it seems you’ve been here (earth) far longer than I so what r u going to do? It should be under $400 to renew your clutch ever however many thousand miles.

Maybe a nice letter to Ducati requesting they build their bikes as well as the Germans? Might not work out too well cause my 2020 S1000RR still does not exist as they were all recalled

finally... my boring Triumph 675 has had 0 issues to sort out during its 15,000 miles of adventures and 6 years of ownership. Just a couple of oil changes and tyres

(like if you actually read all of this)

 

[cmh210]

I think you should be able to get a lot more than 4000 miles out of a dry clutch. Our old air cooled 2014 BMW R1200 RT-P bikes had dry clutches. We chase speeders down on the freeway and three to four times a year do retraining, which is very stressful on any clutch. And, I don't think we ever had to replace a clutch while we still had them. I think the most mileage we had on one was around 15000-20000 miles. That is a obviously a different brand, but gets the point across.

 

[David Rand]

I understand your frustration from your bike not being what you expected. However, there is a bit of a distinction to be made. It is not "breaking down". An item on it, which normally wears, is wearing faster than you expected. I have seen everything from under 2K miles to 20K miles for dry clutch lifespan. Did yours wear faster than I would typically expect? Absolutely. This can be a result of many factors: use, contamination (if you have a slight oil leak from the seal, that can happen), clutch not fully clamping causing premature wear, etc, etc. Replace it because it is easy to do, make sure there is no oil contamination and that the clutch is operating properly and you will likely get many more miles this next time around. The manufacturer typically cannot warranty wear items, because they are affected drastically by how the bike is used and there is no way to prove how the bike was used except for the owner's word. Sometimes they may do it for good will.

Again, I appreciate your time and advice. Nothing personal, but actually "Breaking Down" is exactly what happened. I was barely able to get it to the shop. Had I been on any sort of extended ride it would have sucked, I'd of been stranded and needed a tow truck. Especially considering it's a 50k motorcycle, this shouldn't be happening. No excuses. The bike isn't advertised as a just a track bike or delicate, don't go more than a few miles from your house, type of machine. It was advertised as a hearty state of the art bike. 2k miles from a seasoned rider to experience a major mechanical failure is ridiculous. I did not mistreat the bike in any way, or take it into any rugged situations. Ducati depends on brand to fetch a premium. It's ancestor did not win the world championship by falling apart. I remember when Ford stood for "Fix Or Repair Daily" I expect them to honor their name.

 

[David Rand]

Dave,
I call it it the privilege of ownership.
Welcome to the forum, buddy! You sound like a hell of a cool guy. If I could accomplish half as much as you have I’d consider it a success.

I purchased a 2015 1299S in Aug 2019 for half of what MSRP was back in the day with only 1,800 miles and it had the loud ... Akra Slip one installed.
I got to handle “breaking it in” as I went through replacing faulty eta from the factory [out of warranty] and these parts weren’t faulty because the bike sat for 4 years but rather that they were not engineered properly from the factory

Now that I own a 1299, your very special Ducati V4 916 is the dream but being 100% serious I think it might make a better piece of art than a street bike
@BMW Alpina

650ib is a YouTube creator that collected his beautiful V4R right away (2019) and proceeded to modify it to the full extent of products available.
he raced It against some of the finest bikes of the world, ripping through gears with DQS and revving through redline. I recall his clutch was ready to be renewed around the 4,000 mile mark after sustaining all that abuse. Remember, the R is “special” bc it has dry clutch. wet clutch on my 1299 is still perfect at 5,K miles and wet clutch on my Triumph is still perfect with 15,K miles



I’d bet that if Ducati sold all their bikes with a Dry Clutch that the “upgrade” would be to install a wet clutch
Back in 2012 [pre-dieslgate] VW offered the GTI and Golf R with an automated Direct Shift Gearbox DSG transmission that contained dual DRY clutches while porsche was a decade more advanced with its far superior, over-engineered Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) dual WET plate clutch gearbox.

I love my Ducati, it’s been my dream since I was 12. But love isn’t rational, soooo it is what it is OP David Rand and it seems you’ve been here (earth) far longer than I so what r u going to do? It should be under $400 to renew your clutch ever however many thousand miles.

Maybe a nice letter to Ducati requesting they build their bikes as well as the Germans? Might not work out too well cause my 2020 S1000RR still does not exist as they were all recalled

finally... my boring Triumph 675 has had 0 issues to sort out during its 15,000 miles of adventures and 6 years of ownership. Just a couple of oil changes and tyres

(like if you actually read all of this)

View attachment 29778

View attachment 29779

Thanks man, appreciate your time and all the pics! Yeah, I'm 60 been riding my whole life, always buy new bikes, never had a problem like this. I expect more from a Ducati, especially a very expensive one. No reason why design and durability can't be built together. No excuses. I'm a visual effects artist for feature films. I've worked on a lot of big shows., (Dave Rand - IMDb) There's only two of these bikes in L.A. Mine, and Tom Cruise just got one, his new film is going to be awesome, can't talk about it here, but the trailer just begins to do it justice.

 

[DucatiKev]

There's only two of these bikes in L.A. Mine, and Tom Cruise just got one

It’s great you joined up here and it’s great to write with you.

At least you’re allowed to ride and enjoy yours... I’m sure it’s a blast!

I think if I were you, I’d ask my service writer to have my clutch renewed with better components if they’re available and I guess be prepared to pay for it. Then ride ride ride and monitor it

 

[BMW Alpina]

Hi Dave,
I hope Ducati willing to step up and cover this issue under warranty.
By the way, what is the serial number on your bike? Mine is 210.
Thanks

 

[David Rand]

Hi Dave,
I hope Ducati willing to step up and cover this issue under warranty.
By the way, what is the serial number on your bike? Mine is 210.
Thanks

Great to hear from you ! I’ll find out Tom’s today. Where about do you live?

 

[BMW Alpina]

Great to hear from you ! I’ll find out Tom’s today. Where about do you live?

Hello Dave,
I live in San Jose, CA. I believe you purchase yours (#286) from Pro Italia?
I made a list with all the serial# available for sale in the US between December 2019 until early Feb 2020 because I was looking for one bike with a serial number I prefer

 

[David Rand]

Hello Dave,
I live in San Jose, CA. I believe you purchase yours (#286) from Pro Italia?
I made a list with all the serial# available for sale in the US between December 2019 until early Feb 2020 because I was looking for one bike with a serial number I prefer

no, Beverly Hills Ducati same as my friend. Great staff and service dept there. Are you the guy that did the youtube vid of why you bought it? For me, my dad bought me a red toy motorcycle with a number one on it days before he died when I was 7. It would end up lost. When I first saw it online I thought it was the toy I just saw a picture I clicked on it take it out and didn’t care how much it cost me to buy that toy! And then I saw a price tag and it was a real Ducati! A year later right own it after keeping its wallpaper on my desktop at the studio.

 

[BMW Alpina]

no, Beverly Hills Ducati same as my friend. Great staff and service dept there. Are you the guy that did the youtube vid of why you bought it? For me, my dad bought me a red toy motorcycle with a number one on it days before he died when I was 7. It would end up lost. When I first saw it online I thought it was the toy I just saw a picture I clicked on it take it out and didn’t care how much it cost me to buy that toy! And then I saw a price tag and it was a real Ducati! A year later right own it after keeping its wallpaper on my desktop at the studio.

Hello Dave, Oh, Beverly Hills Ducati... Yes, I take a look at my old email from ProItalia when they offer me the #286... Proitalia did say they located this bike #286 and can get it if I want it , turn out it was at Beverly Hills...
Anyway, the reason I bought this was, I used to co-owned the original 1995 Ducati 916 with my friend when I study in Los Angeles back in the early 90's. Before I went to my country, I offer my friend (who owed me lots of money to purchase his F355 Berlinetta) that I want to take over the 916 ownership completely and take it back to my country with me as the payment.
However, a day later, he told me the bike was stolen. Which is weird because we live in the same apartment building (high rise on Wilshire Blvd. West LA with security guard) and the 916 was parked and blocked by the F355.
I suspect that he sold it behind my back to avoid paying me,...
Anyway, 916 is "the one bike that "get away"... I even have a TSHIRT at that time which shows a 916 with a caption below it "Ducati 916 Gotta have one"...

I was looking to buy a pristine 1997 916 (the original one) back in December but I decided to just "take a look" at the new Panigale V4 916 25 Anniversario in Pro Italia back in December, and right away I change my mind and decide to purchase the new one instead of the old original 916... mainly because I just don't have time to keep changing the belt every 2 years on the old 916, not to mention it is known for "electrical" problem. But I promise myself, I need to find the one with the right serial# otherwise I would not buy... and finally after several months of looking I find one.

I also used to owned (my first company) Aprilia exclusive distributor in my country back in early 2000... so this is really just a sentimental purchase for me

I documented my modification here:
Ducati Panigale V4 916 25 Anniversario Build Thread