Panigale V4: Limp Mode

[Fry]

During a race this past weekend, my 2019 V4 went into limp mode entering T1. It was scary but fortunately the race had already been red flagged due to a big incident on the start line. The bike showed a red box with DTC error and would not go faster than 40 mph. Power-cycling resolved it and I later found this code: P2131 Throttle Position Sensor F Circuit Range / Performance. I have the Domino Quick Action throttle installed and it's been fine and my shop has verified my bike has the correct software parameters.

I have a lot of questions and seek any and all advice.

The throttle instructions do not explicitly state the bike must relearn the throttle; it seems to be plug-n-play, but I hear different things. The Ducati service manual, however, states that if the throttle is changed, TPS adaptive parameters must be reset with DDS 2. I take my shop's word for it but cannot verify they did this, and they cannot get in me in before the next round.

I see that GuzziDiag could possibly reset the TPS and perform throttle learning, but the software seems difficult, outdated, and not well supported. Can the OBDSTAR iScan tool for Ducati reset/relearn the throttle?

The bike idles and revs fine, several times to WOT, annoying the hell out of my neighbors. It was abnormally hot all weekend, about 110 F each day. The bike rode fine Fri and Sat morning. But I seem to recall not letting POST complete and starting the bike quickly, eager to get to the race starting grid. The bike struggled to start; it cranked for a full 3 count when it normally fires up instantly. I have a working guess that POST was interrupted/failed, though the bike seemed fine on a slow warm-up lap.

Any ideas, experience, or advice? I'm trying to learn and become more self-reliant and not so dependent on Ducati shops. My current plan is to check all the relevant electrical connections and hit a local track day in a couple weeks and see how it goes, hoping this was a one-off anomoly perhaps related to my hasty startup.

Here's the onboard video. It was the pole sitter who caused a multi-bike incident.

 

[endodoc]

The Domino has the same potentiometer values as the stock throttle (verified). As long as the throttle was installed with the ignition circuit off, and assuming that the Domino is installed at its zero (idle) value the bike has no logic telling it that there is anything different.

On the TPS, normally on the POST, the TPS,APS and idle circuit (throttle body motors) are synchronized automatically every time the ignition sequence is initiated. I have installed a few Domino RBWs and using my handheld diag verified that they all installed correctly (tps sync values throttle off and WOT) they were all correct and I’ve never seen an issue.

 

[DeussenEngines]

I had a customer that had installed a Domino that had caused limp home issues as well. Switched it back to the OEM twist grip and the problem was gone. So even when the top and bottom voltage values are correct it looks like there are linearity issues in the two output voltage signals of the domino sensor as there is a plausibility diagnostic on top of the min and max voltage diagnostics.

 

[endodoc]

Fair but-that assumption assumes an anomaly with that particular Domino since there are hundreds of those things in use including guys on this board (I have 2) that have not had issues.

 

[Fry]

Thanks to both @endodoc and @DeussenEngines! I really appreciate your solid knowledge.

I've decided that the most likely cause of my issue is my particular Domino throttle installation. I've never had an issue with the OEM throttle but had this one and a similar one in June after installing the Domino. So I've switched back to the OEM throttle and will see how it goes. If I have no issues for 6 months, I'll figure it was the Domino, else, it was not the Domino. I do like the feel of the Domino better but admit the OEM is not bad (I had the slop spacers installed since day 1 and never had ny issues). I personally know of two other CVMA racers who have the Domino on a V4 and one has no problems whatsoever and the other mentions experincing similar issues at times. No firm connection but it's a variable to consider. I'll report back if I find out anything.

 

[elements018]

I've ran into a lot of riders who have had problems with the Domino throttle on a V4 at the track, best to keep the stock one around as a spare.

 

[Kev242]

I heard Chuck was repaved, first time I have seen it. Last spring it was getting pretty hairy through T3-6 with debris being flung at you.

 

[Fry]

I heard Chuck was repaved, first time I have seen it. Last spring it was getting pretty hairy through T3-6 with debris being flung at you.

Yeah, they repaved it and it's nice and smooth, but still green. There's little surface stones/debris offline but the track should be really great after a couple of months to break it in. Grip seemed good, but due to the green track and unreasonably hot temps, it took some re-learning and times were down for most people by 2-4 seconds.

 

[endodoc]

I've ran into a lot of riders who have had problems with the Domino throttle on a V4 at the track, best to keep the stock one around as a spare.

“A lot of riders”?If that’s the case, that’s a recall on that part from Domino. I haven’t seen or heard anything from Domino with regards to a potential issue which could be dangerous with a RBW system. If anyone is having issues, I would contact the mfg. It’s a $500.00 throttle, that’s not acceptable.

 

[DeussenEngines]

Maybe to be clear it is necessary to state that the part on the handlebars is not the throttle. I call the part on the bars twist grip. The throttles are the plates regulating the airflow into the engine. Since this is a drive by wire system the two are not directly connected anymore like on a mechanical system.

So here the issue is with the twist grip sensors causing a limp home reaction of the ECU.

The "P2131 Throttle Position Sensor F Circuit Range / Performance" text is actually not complete. The complete text would be "P2131 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch F Circuit Range Performance" where now you see that the code is related to the pedal position sensors which on a bike is the twist grip. The twist grip sensor has two output voltages. "Circuit Range Performance" is a diagnosis that compares the difference between the two outputs and when the difference is larger than a threshold the fault is triggered.

I would say there are some production tolerances in a few domino parts that are very close to be out of spec and eventually trigger the fault.

 

[Fry]

Thank you @DeussenEngines ! That is a great explanation and my twist grip has to be the most likely cause of my issue.

I have sent a contact form email to Domino explaining my issue and asking if there are known related issues with this twist grip, and to confirm the install procedure, and to seek their advice on next steps. I'll report back here with any info. This forum is often very helpful. Thank you all!

 

[aque0us]

I’ve been struggling with the P2140 code, didn’t have any issues with my first throttle, but my second one has definitely been annoying. My .... will pop up first thing in the morning for some reason, used to go away on its own after multiple ignition cycles, then I started clearing it with the OBD reader.

Came up 3 times in July/August, but definitely more lately maybe times 5 times in September. I did take your recommendation and clear the code first thing Saturday of CVMA rd 1 and immediately did a tire calibration without turning it off, I haven’t had it pop up since! No issues on Sunday, checked it again numerous times last week, and no issues Monday at moto forza. Fingers crossed this weekend.

 

[aque0us]

Thank you @DeussenEngines ! That is a great explanation and my twist grip has to be the most likely cause of my issue.

I have sent a contact form email to Domino explaining my issue and asking if there are known related issues with this twist grip, and to confirm the install procedure, and to seek their advice on next steps. I'll report back here with any info. This forum is often very helpful. Thank you all!

Any update?

 

[Fry]

Any update?

Hi. It's been a week and I have not received a response from Domino.
I did put my OEM throttle back on and brought my bike to a friend who has the Texa software. All the related parameters were already in range but I reset the TPS adaptive parameters just in case. All seems good but will test it OCT 15th at Fontana.
I have a high suspicion that some Dominos are not perfectly reliable.

 

[MMC]

Which race was that? That’s gawdawful hot-

 

[Fry]

Which race was that? That’s gawdawful hot-

CVMA Rd 1 2022/2023 was off-the-charts legendary hot. Like 110F all weekend. It was 113 when I lined up, with much trepidation, for my first race Saturday afternoon (Amateur Formula Open). I was almost happy and relieved when my bike malfunction, ending my weekend.

 

[aque0us]

I’ve been struggling with the P2140 code, didn’t have any issues with my first throttle, but my second one has definitely been annoying. My .... will pop up first thing in the morning for some reason, used to go away on its own after multiple ignition cycles, then I started clearing it with the OBD reader.

Came up 3 times in July/August, but definitely more lately maybe times 5 times in September. I did take your recommendation and clear the code first thing Saturday of CVMA rd 1 and immediately did a tire calibration without turning it off, I haven’t had it pop up since! No issues on Sunday, checked it again numerous times last week, and no issues Monday at moto forza. Fingers crossed this weekend.

View attachment 45069

Can’t make this .... up!!! JUST fired it up to load it into my hauler got the service engine light… Barely made it up on the ramp…

 

[Fry]

I did get a reply from Domino today:
"We are sorry to hear about the inconvenience you have experienced. However, to receive proper technical & warranty assistance, you should first contact the dealer that has provided you the product. They will manage this problem directly with us."

I don't care to proceed on this but figured to report what I learned. Thanks.

 

[Wito]

I had the same problem with Domino Throttle. Switched to new Domino and no problem so far. In my case it has something to do with throttle cables or connectors I think (I carefully examined cable and it had some small abrassion in isolation (rubbing against fairing) - could be a reason). Or there is a problem with Domino.

 

[aque0us]

I had the same problem with Domino Throttle. Switched to new Domino and no problem so far. In my case it has something to do with throttle cables or connectors I think (I carefully examined cable and it had some small abrassion in isolation (rubbing against fairing) - could be a reason). Or there is a problem with Domino.

Which code were u getting?