V4 Water Pump Failures...

[Kruz]

I'm hearing from other owners that water pump failures are very common on the V4, does this affect all model years?

John

 

[baggerman]

There's been multiple revisions. The first major one was about 2020. This stopped the failures from leaking into the oil. Such that all the leaking fluid drained into the V of the engine. The next major revision was to add tubing so it leaked off the bottom of the bike instead of running into the V. Ducati's 2025 press release talked about another cooling system revision which talks about dual flow. What I think this refers to is splitting the pump flow into two separate outlets such that each head has it's own flow path from pump to head. This could probably be adapted to the earlier V4's because the pump actually pumps out thru 2 outlets that are joined into one slightly downstream. The radiator and oil cooler surface area has been increased somewhat on the 25's. I have to believe that another major water pump revision came with the 2025's but I've not seen the new part numbers. The V4's have also gone thru a number of oil pump revisions and in 2025 all V4's use the R oil pump.

 

[Kruz]

Thanks Baggerman, so I can assume on my new 2024 V4, the coolant will leak into the V when it fails?

Is this a 100% certainty the pump will fail at some point on these engines?

Thanks!

John

 

[baggerman]

I actually won't worry much about a 24. They've clearly been working on this. My own bike has no issues at 12K. It's a 21, so after the first revision. I think some of these might had been caused by poor assembly fixturing used during the assembly of the pump on the early bikes. I took one apart from the 2019 motor I have on the bench. Posted under "waterpump exploded". If I bought a pre 21 V4 I'd go in and change it preemptively. But I think you're pretty safe. 2024's leak thru a tube so it won't leak into the V.

 

[SirJAG]

Thanks Baggerman, so I can assume on my new 2024 V4, the coolant will leak into the V when it fails?

Is this a 100% certainty the pump will fail at some point on these engines?

Thanks!

John

You can shine a flashlight into the V with the fairing off you’ll see the weep hole and pretty quickly know if you’ve got a leak…. I think by 2024 yours has a tube that goes to the bottom of the bike.

Jag

 

[Mcv4]

Yep 22 onwards has the weep line tee'd int the second reservoir overflow line. I'm waiting for Ducati to approve a second replacement pump now on my 22 pv4s. 25,000 kms though. For me based only on my experiences, I believe a big part of the failure is how I ride the bike. Both my pumps have started leaking under the same riding condition. There's many things this could come down to though.

 

[SirJAG]

Yep 22 onwards has the weep line tee'd int the second reservoir overflow line. I'm waiting for Ducati to approve a second replacement pump now on my 22 pv4s. 25,000 kms though. For me based only on my experiences, I believe a big part of the failure is how I ride the bike. Both my pumps have started leaking under the same riding condition. There's many things this could come down to though.

Describe how you ride your bike. I’m wondering if it’s like me pretty much dank wheelies, and near redline shifting. Very hard.

 

[Mcv4]

Each time my pump has failed it has been on a yearly road trip I do where we ride a long series of very tight corners that use predominantly 1st gear. Basically heavy first gear acceleration to high rpm then sharp deceleration, over and over again. Some sections of road this will last for 40 - 60km. After the last trip in January, the second pump on the bike started leaking but not as bad as the first one. The first one was leaking that bad that I had to park the bike, ride my partners bike 400km back home, pick up my trailer and drive back to pick up the bike. This year I was able to keep an eye on the coolant reservoir level and finish the 8 day trip.

When I took the bike to the dealer they could not get the bike to leak coolant (and it didn't leak for me riding it there too). I ended up taking the bike back, ran the weep hose from the pump into a bottle, took the bike for a local loop that had a 16km section of road that I could use a heap of first gear to replicate what I thought was the leakage trigger. Sure enough it leaked but only started during the heavy 1st gear section, then continued to leak slowly the whole way home. Bike currently at the dealer waiting on Ducati to approve the pump replacement with my findings.

I should have just linked this thread https://ducatiforum.com/t/second-water-pump-gone-already.64067/

 

[baggerman]

Describe how you ride your bike. I’m wondering if it’s like me pretty much dank wheelies, and near redline shifting. Very hard.

He flogs it mercilessly like the rest of us. I'm waiting for the drag strip pass. He just needs to quit killing water pumps.

 

[Mcv4]

The drags went pretty bad. Not an easy bike to get off the line I found. Hates slipping the clutch just shudders and carries on. Bested a 10.1 @149 but with a woeful 2.0 in the 60. Think I need to turn the TC completely off also. Try again at the end of this month hopefully.

 

[wildman]

@Mcv4 I have a 2019 that is weeping oil into the V. Everyone, what is the best option? I don't know if the previous owner replaced the pump or not...purchased from a dealer. Should I wait for a 2025 pump? Or case mod by drilling and tapping two hoses with the airbox off? I added a video of another cat doing this below.

V4 Case Mod Youtube

 

[Mcv4]

I don't know if anyone is aware of differences with the 25 V4 pump yet or even if there will be any.

Nice mod in the video and if you have the time and the knowhow then why not do it!

 

[baggerman]

@Mcv4 I have a 2019 that is weeping oil into the V. Everyone, what is the best option? I don't know if the previous owner replaced the pump or not...purchased from a dealer. Should I wait for a 2025 pump? Or case mod by drilling and tapping two hoses with the airbox off? I added a video of another cat doing this below.

V4 Case Mod Youtube

Weeping fluid or oil? Oil would be from somewhere else. Plumbing the vee won't fix the problem. The pump will just keep leaking worse. If you let it leak enough on the early pumps they'll wash the grease out of the main pump shaft bearing and start leaking into the motor. Bye, bye bearings. Ducati did something similar (in 22?) it's a band aid. I'm actually waiting on the 2025 parts catalogue to see if there's a change in either the water pump or the oil pump. The motors been apart for months. The R oil pump is now common to all V4's but is it the same as the 2024 R pump? The water pump is running at 2/3 engine speed. So possibly they increased the depth of the impeller and slowed the pump down. Then they wouldn't work. They did a bunch of changes to the cases going to the DSSA so who knows. They did lots of changes to the cooling system as a whole.

 

[wildman]

@baggerman It's engine oil in the V right past the weep hole. And no its not coolant. I use the green motul so its super obvious when its not the pink eni. Below is a screenshot of an older service notice from Nov 21. Part number 24920510H has since been replaced for 24920511K. Some folks with the updated part still get the same leak.

 

[baggerman]

@baggerman It's engine oil in the V right past the weep hole. And no its not coolant. I use the green motul so its super obvious when its not the pink eni. Below is a screenshot of an older service notice from Nov 21. Part number 24920510H has since been replaced for 24920511K. Some folks with the updated part still get the same leak.

View attachment 60112

I think this was major revision one. The later pumps seem to be devoid of oil leaks. At least I've seen no mention of it. The oil leaks themselves into the V are weird as the pump nose is not submerged in oil. So it would seem that an oil leak would be caused by excess crankcase pressure. The first series pumps had shaft bearing seals that were lightly loaded like grease seals, which is what they were (I took one apart) The water leaks have continued. All the way to the 2024's.

 

[Kruz]

The joy of Ducati ownership.....

 

[wildman]

@baggerman I am assuming the sealant around the waterpump leaks under high pressure+ time+ heat cycles. You can see how the sealant bead is so close to the weep holes.

This is from the refit instructions.

I think this was major revision one. The later pumps seem to be devoid of oil leaks. At least I've seen no mention of it. The oil leaks themselves into the V are weird as the pump nose is not submerged in oil. So it would seem that an oil leak would be caused by excess crankcase pressure. The first series pumps had shaft bearing seals that were lightly loaded like grease seals, which is what they were (I took one apart) The water leaks have continued. All the way to the 2024's.

 

[baggerman]

@baggerman I am assuming the sealant around the waterpump leaks under high pressure+ time+ heat cycles. You can see how the sealant bead is so close to the weep holes.

This is from the refit instructions.

View attachment 60145

Nope. Not if it was assembled right. Simply isn't that much pressure. You have the original pump right. Was the bearings nose seal spring in place? The original pumps had pretty low seal load on the shaft bearings. The 19 pump I had was packed with grease and had got hot enough for the inner bearing seal to leak melted grease into the weep hole passage. You can press the pumps apart by pressing on the impeller end of the shaft. The main shaft bearing is blind pressed from the other side and after the impellers removed (I cut it off with a die grinder) I heated the housing and pressed it apart. Then you can actually look at both seals.