15000 mile Valve check... Really necessary??

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Stw

Stw

Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
6,386
Location
Dallas.Tx
We all know our bikes have this insanely expensive valve check job "requirement" every 15000 miles.... is this really necessary??? I mean if you could clear the Desmo Service indicator and just continue to ride... would this be injurious to the bike??? No doubt its recommended... but necessary???
Don't flame me... just asking....;)
 
Stw said:
We all know our bikes have this insanely expensive valve check job "requirement" every 15000 miles.... is this really necessary??? I mean if you could clear the Desmo Service indicator and just continue to ride... would this be injurious to the bike??? No doubt its recommended... but necessary???
Don't flame me... just asking....;)
Click to expand...

If the valves get a little out of adjustment from wear, worst case you lose some comptession. But I wold think you could wait untill 30k for that, unless you want to stay in warranty (IMEO) :)
 
Trauma said:
If the valves get a little out of adjustment from wear, worst case you lose some comptession. But I wold think you could wait untill 30k for that, unless you want to stay in warranty (IMEO) :)
Click to expand...

Ok... so given that I will be out of warranty at that point... forget the service and just buy software that kills the silly reminder??? :cool:
 
same reason you go to the doctor every year for an overall check up. you prolly dont need it, but would you skip it?
 
Bit too early to tell how necessary it is to have the valves checked at 15K. Too few bikes have reached this mileage to know whether the valve train tends to maintain clearances. Certainly the need to have the valves checked at 15K depends on how the bike is ridden.

Track duty only, it certainly makes sense to check the valves earlier than 15K. Driven like a grandma and you might be good to go forever without checking the valves.

Generally valves sink into their seats with running, reducing opening valve clearances. When clearances are reduced too much, valves don't fully close which tends to result in carbon build up on the valve seats which causes a loss of compression and tends to allow the edge of the valve to build up heat which ultimately results in burnt valves. My guess is, valve replacement and seat facing is considerably more expensive than a valve clearance check and adjustment.
 
Stw said:
We all know our bikes have this insanely expensive valve check job "requirement" every 15000 miles.... is this really necessary??? I mean if you could clear the Desmo Service indicator and just continue to ride... would this be injurious to the bike??? No doubt its recommended... but necessary???
Don't flame me... just asking....;)
Click to expand...

what is your current milage
 
The ducati website says that the valve clearance check doesnt need to be done until 24k miles. but in the owners manual it says 15k. a little confusing to say the least.
 
Stw said:
We all know our bikes have this insanely expensive valve check job "requirement" every 15000 miles.... is this really necessary??? I mean if you could clear the Desmo Service indicator and just continue to ride... would this be injurious to the bike??? No doubt its recommended... but necessary???
Don't flame me... just asking....;)
Click to expand...

Hi Stw,

IMO it's probably not necessary. I base this opinion on previous experience with the later DUCATI engines.
BUT i would say it is wise and advisable to have it done.
It could be cheap insurance just to be able to identify potential problems like premature cam failure while the mechanic is working in there.

From my personal experience it happened with one of my toys (not DUCATI), and it was the only one they had ever encountered, thankfully it was covered under warranty.
Remember the Superquadro is a totally new engine design. It also has some sort of coating on the cams which is not totally proven yet.
Whilst i have absolute confidence in DUCATI durability testing, we are to an extent Beta testing for them as well because we are the first owners.

Regards,
Brad
 
WV 1199 said:
The ducati website says that the valve clearance check doesnt need to be done until 24k miles. but in the owners manual it says 15k. a little confusing to say the least.
Click to expand...

24,000 km is roughly 15,000 miles....maybe that's the confusion.

Now to brass tacks.

I operate Desert Desmo LLC, an independent Ducati service center, and have checked and adjusted as necessary literally thousands of Ducati valves. I will begin with a couple of observations about the valve trains and go from there.

From the parts diagrams it looks to me as though Ducati used two existing valve train systems on the Panigale. On the exhaust valves they used the 7mm system that has been around since the 851. This system employs two split rings to fix the closing shim to the valve stem with the opener sitting atop the stem. The intake valves use the tapered collet 6mm system used on 749S, 749R, 999R, 1098R, and 1198R. This system uses a pair of tapered collets to "lock" the closing shim to the valve stem with the opering shim sitting atop the valve stem.

The 7mm system with the old-tech wire half rings tends to drift out early in its life and then stabilize. The wire rings dimple where the shim pushes them up against the upper shoulder on the valve stem, which is where the bulk of deviation from initial adjustment occurs. If, after changing the closing shim, the mechanic puts the split rings back in the way they came out the dimple is already worn in, so they tend not to wear further. If he flips them over the new shim might not even fit very well! I mention this because unless Ducati has produced some "super split rings" that won't dimple, the first adjustment is probably the most critical adjustment for the exhaust valves. Oh...for what it's worth, I suspect Ducati used this system on the hotter exhaust valves so that they could take advantage of the thermal properties of the larger valve stem to transfer heat to the head.

The 6mm system doesn't drop out of adjustment as quickly in my VERY limited experience with it, so I won't talk about it much. The tapered collets can't dimple like the split rings, and they have a large surface area over which to spread the valve acceleration and seating loads. I've wondered on several occasions why Ducati chose not to use this system on all the valves, but they did what they did!

Anyway.....if it's my bike, I'll make sure it gets the 15k service.
 
WV 1199 said:
The ducati website says that the valve clearance check doesnt need to be done until 24k miles. but in the owners manual it says 15k. a little confusing to say the least.
Click to expand...

I think the website said 24k Km and the book says 15k mi it's the same I guess.

Anyways it would be a bummer if you go in at 15k mi and don't need it adjusted and 3k mi later and you start getting compression issues and need it you have to pay twice.
 
I am getting the feeling that its good to do but not necessary or injurious to the bike... I am not due yet... but in all honesty I will not have this done... I would rather trade the bike and put the $2000 towards a new bike...
 
Cloner said:
24,000 km is roughly 15,000 miles....maybe that's the confusion.

Now to brass tacks.

I operate Desert Desmo LLC, an independent Ducati service center, and have checked and adjusted as necessary literally thousands of Ducati valves. I will begin with a couple of observations about the valve trains and go from there.

From the parts diagrams it looks to me as though Ducati used two existing valve train systems on the Panigale. On the exhaust valves they used the 7mm system that has been around since the 851. This system employs two split rings to fix the closing shim to the valve stem with the opener sitting atop the stem. The intake valves use the tapered collet 6mm system used on 749S, 749R, 999R, 1098R, and 1198R. This system uses a pair of tapered collets to "lock" the closing shim to the valve stem with the opering shim sitting atop the valve stem.

The 7mm system with the old-tech wire half rings tends to drift out early in its life and then stabilize. The wire rings dimple where the shim pushes them up against the upper shoulder on the valve stem, which is where the bulk of deviation from initial adjustment occurs. If, after changing the closing shim, the mechanic puts the split rings back in the way they came out the dimple is already worn in, so they tend not to wear further. If he flips them over the new shim might not even fit very well! I mention this because unless Ducati has produced some "super split rings" that won't dimple, the first adjustment is probably the most critical adjustment for the exhaust valves. Oh...for what it's worth, I suspect Ducati used this system on the hotter exhaust valves so that they could take advantage of the thermal properties of the larger valve stem to transfer heat to the head.

The 6mm system doesn't drop out of adjustment as quickly in my VERY limited experience with it, so I won't talk about it much. The tapered collets can't dimple like the split rings, and they have a large surface area over which to spread the valve acceleration and seating loads. I've wondered on several occasions why Ducati chose not to use this system on all the valves, but they did what they did!

Anyway.....if it's my bike, I'll make sure it gets the 15k service.
Click to expand...

I read blah, blah, blah - I would the 15K :D
 
ScrapperX said:
I think the website said 24k Km and the book says 15k mi it's the same I guess.

Anyways it would be a bummer if you go in at 15k mi and don't need it adjusted and 3k mi later and you start getting compression issues and need it you have to pay twice.
Click to expand...

check the website:

Ducati

on the very bottom it says 24,000m not km.
 
At 15k my valves needed no adjustment, but that doesn't mean everyone's bike won't. Keep in mind that $2k is what a dealer in LA charges. It's going to be less at dealers in, say, Austin and it's going to be even less at independent shops. While under warranty I'll be sticking with dealers.

Hey Ray!
 
Ray916MN said:
m = meters
km = 1000 meters = 1 kilometer
mi. = miles

24000m = 24km
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they did not mean 24km, that is ridiculous. Just above the 24k it states maintenance intervals of 7,500m which is accurate for our regular service intervals, so it is safe to say that they are referring to miles no meters
 

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