2012 Panigale with a heat issue

Hello all, it's been quite some time since I've been on here and I'm in a situation where I could use some advice. I apologize in advance for the lengthy story but I'll try to keep it as short as I can while still hitting on all of the facts.

Back in June of 2013 I purchased my 2012 1199 base model (leftover) and started having problems right out of the box. During my first service, the tech noticed that he was unable to adjust the chain because the rear hub was seized and would not move. I had to make a separate appointment to come back and have the rear hub rebuilt and while I was there I noticed that the lower right fairing had also started melting due to it being close to the exhaust. They ordered a new lower fairing and replaced it at a later date. It was at this later date that I also noticed that my rear hugger had glazed over in a large area and brought that to the tech's attention. They put temp strips on the rear hugger to gauge just how hot it was getting and both went off the charts. I ended up dropping the bike off with them and they had it for over a month and a half to try and figure out what the issue was. This was all in the first few months of owning the bike. They ended up replacing the ECU for the exhaust and also found that the exhaust valve sticking in the mostly closed state and addressed it. By the time I got the bike back it was pretty much the end of the season and I put the bike away.

The following year the bike started to have the same issue with the rear hugger melting/glazing over but I didn't have a chance to bring the bike in due to my work schedule being so hectic but I did call to let them know of the issue coming back.

Well, this year I brought it in and dropped it off with the dealership to figure out the issue. They had it for over a month and a half and even had a rep from Ducati North America come out to go over the bike. They found that the bike was running lean, and that the charcoal canister was completely full of gas. The rep was surprised that I still had the canister on and asked the tech why I hadn't removed it already (that's what the tech told me the rep said). My response was so that I couldn't be blamed for anything being modified, therefore voiding my warranty.

During the bike's stay at the dealership they replaced an O2 sensor, midpipe, charcoal canister, checked for ECU updates, and replaced the rear hugger. They also had the rear suspension switched from flat to progressive (because I due ride with my wife from time to time) and adjusted the suspension up a little bit (because I had them lower it slightly at my first service so I could reach the ground a bit easier, but far from flat footing it). They said that having a passenger on the back could contribute to the problem so they had recommended stiffening up the rear suspension and I said fine. They also said that I probably over filled the gas tank which could be why the charcoal filter was full of gas, which I KNOW I have never once even come close to overfilling the tank. Then they said that if I put the bike away with a full tank that that could contribute to the charcoal filter filling up. I took delivery of my bike about a month after my warranty had run out.

So since I left the dealership I put on a whopping 200 miles before the problem, once again, showed it's ugly face. At this point I'm ripped. The dealership has had my bike for over three months total for the same issue and now I was going to have to bring it back in again. I made the phone call and the owner of the dealership said that he was going to have to call DNA to get direction since the bike was out of warranty now. So I waited. I called once a week for a month, each time getting the runaround, until I said that I was going to pursue other avenues if I didn't get contact from DNA soon (meaning lemoning the bike). Well, a half hour later the owner of the dealership calls back saying that DNA got back to him just then. It's a miracle, right?? That really upset me knowing that I was basically blown off until I threatened going after lemoning the bike to get any response so I decided to send a certified letter of "Final Attempt to Repair". This is the first step for going after the Lemon Law. From this point on, I have to deal with DNA directly. I can no longer go through the dealership.

So I dropped the bike off last week and DNA sent out another rep to diagnose the bike. They found that the bike was running lean and it also had a misfire on one of the cylinders. They also said that the charcoal canister was once again filled with gas. They tried blaming me for overfilling the tank again. I'm legitimately pissed that they'd think that I'd overfill my tank after being without my bike for almost the entire summer. I asked them if they thought I was stupid or something. Then they tried saying that having a passenger on the back was bad for it. to which I said that me and my wife's combined weight was less than half of the bikes capable capacity. they were like uhhhhh, ummmmm. At the end of that phone call, they said that they had installed a part and that they were going to test ride it to see if it fixed the problem. I asked them what the part was and they said it was a carbon fiber rear hugger. I said that that wasn't finding out what the problem was, that was a way to cover up the issue. It was a bandaid. I said try again, I'm not accepting that as a possibility and that they needed to find out why the problem is being caused in the first place.

Well, a few days ago I get another call and they said that the license plate relocator kit was causing a 30 degree increase in temp under in between the exhaust and rear hugger. I told them that I modified the factory plate holder after the problem had already been happening in the first place. I have integrated taillights (Shift Tech plug and play) and modified the long plate older using ABS plastic.

I feel that DNA is reaching for any excuse at this point to not take responsibility for the bike not running properly and just wants a way to blame me for it's poor performance. What do you guys all think? Do I have a case to lemon this bike? Again, sorry for the long story.

Here are some pics of my modified tail that they're saying is holding in so much heat.

See PM from me.

Got it. Thank you!

Many people are having the same issues you are..

These bikes run REAL lean from the factory.. Unless you get the ECU reflashed to richen it up you will not stop the problem.. **Beware though if the dealer or anyone else reflashes the ECU it voids the factory warranty.. I have had very little luck with my dealership getting mine fixed.. They gave it the good old college try but they are seriously hampered by what the factory will let them do ...
A friend also has a 1299S and hit back fender/hugger melts..This is an issue that the factory knows about but cannot (or is not willing to admit to and fix) evidently..
You are right about one thing The factory rep will use ANY excuse not to have to deal with it.

I had mine on a Dyno and it showed A/F ratios as high as 18.5 /1 in some areas of the mid throttle at the lower cruising rpms between 3000 to 5000 rpm) That is real lean and it will run hot..

You CAN END end the running hot/lean issues with the addition of the Rapid Bike Racing tuner module.. It will transform the way your bike runs and since it autotunes constantly it keeps it running great regardless of the outside temperature etc.. The longer I ride mine the better it runs... However it works downstream from the ECU so there is no changes to the ECU's program.

Mine no longer runs overly hot..

If I could just get the throttle sticking thing in first gear fixed it would be great.. Still working on that one.

Speedy

Sorry to thread jack..


Speedy did they replace the throttle assy on your bike and reset the TPS? I had that problem on my hyper and it fixed it first time out..

There are a lot of way to solve air/fuel mapping with these bikes. Anything from Rapidbike, Tuneboy, Rexxer, Power Commander etc etc. All have their pros and cons.

The license plate holders with the New Rage kits are MUCH closer to the exhaust. I'm not buying that it has ANYTHING to do with your heat problem.

It seems like most of the problems with these bikes are early models, 2012ish. It seems by 2014 things were pretty sorted out. This tells me there were a lot of production changes between the model years. I don't know how good your dealer is being about the whole thing, but I'd check into any service bulletins.

bp7178 said:

There are a lot of way to solve air/fuel mapping with these bikes. Anything from Rapidbike, Tuneboy, Rexxer, Power Commander etc etc. All have their pros and cons.

The license plate holders with the New Rage kits are MUCH closer to the exhaust. I'm not buying that it has ANYTHING to do with your heat problem.

It seems like most of the problems with these bikes are early models, 2012ish. It seems by 2014 things were pretty sorted out. This tells me there were a lot of production changes between the model years. I don't know how good your dealer is being about the whole thing, but I'd check into any service bulletins.

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The dealership was pretty good with everything. No real complaints aside from this last time when the kept saying that they had to wait for further direction from Ducati and it took a month. And then once I told them that I sent DNA the certified "Final Attempt to Repair" letter they said that they couldn't talk to me anymore and that I had to talk to DNA directly, which is understandable.

And as far as aftermarket tuners, such as Power Commanders and the like, I don't feel like I should have to do any of that seeing how the bike is completely stock, mechanically. It should run right, every time, being that it has just under 4k on the clock.

Axis1199 said:

The dealership was pretty good with everything. No real complaints aside from this last time when the kept saying that they had to wait for further direction from Ducati and it took a month. And then once I told them that I sent DNA the certified "Final Attempt to Repair" letter they said that they couldn't talk to me anymore and that I had to talk to DNA directly, which is understandable.

And as far as aftermarket tuners, such as Power Commanders and the like, I don't feel like I should have to do any of that seeing how the bike is completely stock, mechanically. It should run right, every time, being that it has just under 4k on the clock.

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You paid the money, and it should be as advertised. Sorry to hear about your situation. If it was me, I would be looking to have it replaced with a new one or see them in court. The fact your bike is stock and the tail mod was done after the issue, they will likely replace your bike, as a week with a lawyer would cost them more than the bike is worth and they have up until now failed to repair your bike under warranty which you have supplied them with the bike for large sections of time for them to do so. You have lost time with the bike and faced some personal stress over the whole affair as well. The dealer makes about 1/4 on the bike, and Ducati would likely make twice that, so to replace it is not the end of the world for them, and a bonus to you at this point. I would demand it in writing to them, and get their response in writing as well.

AegirCD1 said:

You paid the money, and it should be as advertised. Sorry to hear about your situation. If it was me, I would be looking to have it replaced with a new one or see them in court. The fact your bike is stock and the tail mod was done after the issue, they will likely replace your bike, as a week with a lawyer would cost them more than the bike is worth and they have up until now failed to repair your bike under warranty which you have supplied them with the bike for large sections of time for them to do so. You have lost time with the bike and faced some personal stress over the whole affair as well. The dealer makes about 1/4 on the bike, and Ducati would likely make twice that, so to replace it is not the end of the world for them, and a bonus to you at this point. I would demand it in writing to them, and get their response in writing as well.

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My thoughts as well. I'm sure they won't see it the same way though

Axis1199 said:

My thoughts as well. I'm sure they won't see it the same way though

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You might be surprised. They will try to call your bluff for a bit, but you must have some form of consumer protection laws that will force them to fix it, or ''replace it'' In fact, I am sure you will find that wording in their warranty. It is better for them that you just go away, which 95% of people do. Some threaten legal action but cant afford it, so they play that out as well. When you dont go away however, it gets done and done pretty quickly.
Seems to me, that you have a win/win, because even though the warranty is up, an issue that arose before that date has not been rectified. As long as you have correspondence, etc detailing that stuff, then they have failed to provide warranty that they are required to by law. A lawyers letter demanding they now either repair the bike by a fair date, and considering you have given them chances already that could be in the near future, or ''replace'' the bike.
It is out of warranty and would now cost them money at the dealer to sort out, and no one wants legal action. They are in the wrong here, and to be fair to Ducati as a company, .... does happen, but lets see how they handle it from this point.
I would consider also alerting Ducati Italy to the issue as well. Recently resolved an problem for me. Not Ducati, or even a bike, but went to the parent company and said I will sue and I had the European manager on the phone within a couple of days and she handed me off to number two man, who handled it from there and told me the owner of the group had been briefed as well. This is a large company, so it works.

Love the License Plate BTW man!

Well, DNA and the dealership still currently have the bike. It's been over three weeks and even though the riding season is over I'm still a bit antsy to get my bike back. I'm wondering how long I should wait before I call and say enough is enough, you obviously can't fix it so let's go a different route.

Gunny Fitz said:

Love the License Plate BTW man!

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Haha, thanks! I get that a lot. People can't believe I got away with it. Honestly, neither can I. Lol

Axis1199 said:

Well, DNA and the dealership still currently have the bike. It's been over three weeks and even though the riding season is over I'm still a bit antsy to get my bike back. I'm wondering how long I should wait before I call and say enough is enough, you obviously can't fix it so let's go a different route.

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I wrote my letter to DNA when the bike was at the dealer. I felt that gave me more leverage. "I don't want the bike if it doesn't work."
After I spoke with the DNA rep in Cupertino, CA, the next step was for him to speak with the dealer. My thinking was that if I left it there, the ball is clearly in their court and the dealer views the bike as a liability; they just want to get rid of it.

Axis1199 said:

Well, DNA and the dealership still currently have the bike. It's been over three weeks and even though the riding season is over I'm still a bit antsy to get my bike back. I'm wondering how long I should wait before I call and say enough is enough, you obviously can't fix it so let's go a different route.

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For me, it would kind of be enough right about,,,,now.

I think I'll try calling the rep tonight to see what the issue is and why they've had it for so long. I'm trying to find a tactful way to go about saying that I want a new bike that won't immediately put them on the defensive.

b9009b said:

Sorry to thread jack..


Speedy did they replace the throttle assy on your bike and reset the TPS? I had that problem on my hyper and it fixed it first time out..

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No yet... I rode it back from the dealer yesterday and it made a loud popping noise and then tried to die on me like 10 times It felt like it was running out of gas or had a fuel line intermittently plugged..I slowed down to about 20 mph before it finally ran enough to get off the freeway.
This was in HEAVY 5;00 traffic on Hwy 35 in Austin Tx. no less. This happened in 70 mph traffic and was a real sphincter tightening moment for me..

When I rolled off the throttle it would barely run enough for me to get off the highway Then when I slowed down it ran better but still not right all the way home.. This bike is Dangerous to ride. I am bringing it back to the dealer and leaving it with them till they can fix it right. It was starting to run well with the Ripid Bike unit but this is a new issue that just cropped up..

Man I wish I had NEVER bought this bike

Axis1199 said:

Here are some pics of my modified tail that they're saying is holding in so much heat.

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I have the same set up on my bike Them telling you that new License plate holder is the cause of the overheating it, is typical Ducati Rep ..........
They will use ANYTHING to get out of actually fixing the problem.. Most of the factory reps are actual mechanics in the past and they know better.. They are hired to go around and look at bikes with issues and resolve them Instead they try to get out of paying for correct repairs by using any excuse they can..

The squeaky wheel gets the grease first... I am about to REALLY SQUEAK about my bike.. it is getting worse and worse.

Speedy

Get rid of the charcoal canister.

Get properly dyno tuned. If your Ducati dealership has no dyno, find a new one.

Core the stock exhaust. Delete the flapper. Cats are hot.

Avoid traffic. It's a trackday bike. Stick to mountain roads and the track. It will nuke in 25mph traffic.