Carbon Fiber Kickstand Installation

Gecko · Oct 3, 2015

This thread only applies for people that want to install a carbon fiber kickstand.

Today I wanted to replace the kickstand's OEM pivot bolt with a Titanium one.
I had to learn it the hard way that it is impossible to loosen the bolt without harming the carbon fiber. While start turning on the hex allen side, the opposite hex nut just digs into the carbon fiber

So I drilled out the original bolt, it takes some time but worked without further harming the kickstand.

Advise 1: Do NOT locktite the pivot bolt while installing it
Advise 2: Grease the thread before installation

Tip: I milled two litle axial holes into the new hex bolt. This allows me to counter it while thightening the opposite screw.

Gecko · Oct 3, 2015

@brad51
total weight of the installed kickstand as shown on the picture below is now 355g (including the spring assembly).

desmotesta · Oct 3, 2015

Now I have seen everything..

kismetcapitan · Oct 3, 2015

I ran into the same damned problem, but hadn't figured out a way to proceed. I had greased the bolt when installing my carbon kickstand too.

what drill diameter did you use to drill out the original OEM bolt?

The axial holes are essential. I don't trust the carbon to take any more torque at all, so something else has to hold the rear bolt in place while tightening the front.

Gecko · Oct 3, 2015

First you'll have to find the tool with two pins to put into the holes (sorry, I don't know the English word for this tool). I have all sizes of this tool, this kind of counterholding was very popular in the last century on milling machines and lathes

Then you just measure the pins diameter and do the drilling.

In my case best was two 2mm holes.

EDIT: sorry, I missed you're real question.
When I have to drill-out I always start with a small diameter, like 2mm. Then I stepwise increase the drill's diameter and moving the drill radially a bit. Repeatingly after a few seconds I check the hole visually whether I still only remove material from the bolt or have gone already too far. This strategy always worked very well. As far as I can rember (had a few beers in the meantime) the last drill was 6mm.

topolino · Oct 3, 2015

I have mine in pieces ÃGAIN as I wasnt happy with both the axial and transverse play. The problem is that the bore of the pivot holes in the carbon stand, are fractionally too big so allow a lot of play laterally. This will be cured by pressing a sleeve over the hex headed pivot bolt and machining this down to the correct diameter, the same with the rear pivot bolt. The sleeve of each bolt will be further machined down to match the internal diameter of the alloy bracket pivot hole and to be co-incident with it. Any end float will be taken up by machining some slightly over thickness shims. This should allow the pivot bolts to tighten without actually compressing the carbon at the pivot point, yet afford it enough room so the stand can rotate freely and eliminate all the previous free play and slack. I am also having a hardened steel plate/shoe made up to fit over the ridiculously soft alloy plate on the foot of the stand, then the bracket will be re-painted, the carbon stand re-laquered and new paint protection film applied to prevent damage to the carbon from my boot, and it will be ready to re-fit to the bike

bp7178 · Oct 3, 2015

Gecko said:
First you'll have to find the tool with two pins to put into the holes (sorry, I don't know the English word for this tool). I have all sizes of this tool, this kind of counterholding was very popular in the last century on milling machines and lathes

Snap ring pliers.

Snap Ring Pliers with Interchangeable Heads

Gecko · Oct 3, 2015

topolino said:
I have mine in pieces ÃGAIN as I wasnt happy with both the axial and transverse play. The problem is that the bore of the pivot holes in the carbon stand, are fractionally too big so allow a lot of play laterally. This will be cured by pressing a sleeve over the hex headed pivot bolt and machining this down to the correct diameter, the same with the rear pivot bolt. The sleeve of each bolt will be further machined down to match the internal diameter of the alloy bracket pivot hole and to be co-incident with it. Any end float will be taken up by machining some slightly over thickness shims. This should allow the pivot bolts to tighten without actually compressing the carbon at the pivot point, yet afford it enough room so the stand can rotate freely and eliminate all the previous free play and slack. I am also having a hardened steel plate/shoe made up to fit over the ridiculously soft alloy plate on the foot of the stand, then the bracket will be re-painted, the carbon stand re-laquered and new paint protection film applied to prevent damage to the carbon from my boot, and it will be ready to re-fit to the bike

There are many manufactures of the CF kickstand now. CDT was the best I installed, thight tolerances, no refitting of the bolts on the lathe required. The worst are the one's that are a bit too long or where the limit stop is not exacly grinded: when pushing the kickstand up it bangs into the single side swingarm.

Generally I would not recommend swapping the OEM kickstand with a CF one without having basical mechanical skills.

Very clever idea putting a hardened steel plate onto the foot. I think I'll do that as well.

Gecko · Oct 3, 2015

bp7178 said:
Snap ring pliers.

Snap Ring Pliers with Interchangeable Heads

Nope. Have a look at the first pictures, You'll see the tool there.

topolino · Oct 3, 2015

Gecko said:
There are many manufactures of the CF kickstand now. CDT was the best I installed, thight tolerances, no refitting of the bolts on the lathe required. The worst are the one's that are a bit too long or where the limit stop is not exacly grinded: when pushing the kickstand up it bangs into the single side swingarm.

Generally I would not recommend swapping the OEM kickstand with a CF one without having basical mechanical skills.

Very clever idea putting a hardened steel plate onto the foot. I think I'll do that as well.

I am just trying to get some longevity out of parts that for the price should be up to spec. This way they will not let me down. I have even gone to the extent of stripping the rear suspension down again, in particular the side stand bracket which will have an area of exposed aluminium where the sidestand contacts it in both the fully extended and fully retracted positions so as not to harm the paint, when snapping up and down as well as close density shaped foam pads that will cushion the two components in each position. It is little details like this that make the difference. Another example being the Nanofusion film on the rear light lens and carbon number plate holder that prevent the lens or the holder from damage by stones thrown up by the rear wheel.

bp7178 · Oct 3, 2015

Gecko said:
Nope. Have a look at the first pictures, You'll see the tool there.

Yup. Snap ring pliers will do the job and will be much easier to source than tools made to adjust last century machining tools...should you not have a lot of that stuff lying around.

My preference is to the locking type and the ones with interchangeable tips. With the 90 degree tips you can even unscrew the top of your fork...should you be so inclined to do so.

kismetcapitan · Oct 3, 2015

in any event, whoever made these kickstands would have done a better job if the back was a steel insert. Yeah that adds weight, but having the nut on the carbon itself - that's only good for maybe 1-2 times torquing to spec before stripping out.

topolino · Oct 4, 2015

kismetcapitan said:
in any event, whoever made these kickstands would have done a better job if the back was a steel insert. Yeah that adds weight, but having the nut on the carbon itself - that's only good for maybe 1-2 times torquing to spec before stripping out.

In actual fact, the stand is designed so that any load on the carbon is minimised at the pivot point as when you tighten the hex headed half, it bears down tight against the rear bolt's shoulder/end, where the two meet in the middle, so it does not actually squeeze the carbon together. Any play is taken up by the shims, axially. There is small load the rear bolt places on the walls of the recess by the nut shaped head, as you tighten from the hex side as it resists twisting, thus allowing you to tighten the two together, but I see no evidence of it causing any damage. A lot depends on the accuracy of the carbon part, as the better or more accurate that recess is, the less movement the rear pivot bolt can have rotationally.

Carbon Fiber Kickstand Installation

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