Clutch Fade When Hot

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A016738

Joined
Sep 19, 2020
Messages
102
Location
Massachusetts
Got an issue with clutch engagement disappearing under hot/stand still traffic conditions.
Newly developed issue
11k miles on 2020 PV4 base
Clutch fully (and repeatedly) bled with relatively new RBF660

Clutch engagement was always way out towards the fully extended lever but was always consistent.

Lately when sitting in traffic the clutch will remain engaged with the bike wanting to walk forward to the point of a stall with brakes applied if I don't go to neutral.

Pumping lever does not help, nor does bleeding.

Lever free play adjustment does not seem to help either.

Is this a symptom of worn plates? Always thought clutch slip was worn plates. This is the opposite. Plenty of friction under heavy throttle but I'm losing the disengagement.

Under normal riding conditions all is well. Only happens in prolonged stop and go traffic.

I'm at 11k miles so was going to just replace the clutch pack to see if that fixes things cause it'll likely be due soon anyway.

I've researched this forum and others and most talk about this being related to a need to be bled but that seems not to be my issue. Could I have a failing slave (or master) cylinder? No fluid leakage anywhere.


SECONDARY QUESTION:

Any significant difference between the aftermarket (ducabike, etc..) and OEM plates?
 
my 2020 V4, my 1199 and 1299 ALL did exactly what you describe.

BUT bleeding it resolved it, there were ALWAYS some air in the lines.
I also switched from RBF stuff to Castorl react, has a much higher boiling point that the RBF.

You seem to indicate you have ruled out the bleeding and air in the line....i'm sorry i cant help you with that.

good luck
Jag

ps...no info on the clutch plates either i'm afraid.
 
Bleed it again. Then tie the lever off overnight (forces any remaining air out). If it works ok for awhile and then gets worse again it's sucking air. This is usually at the master so insure that the master piston fully returns. There has to be a little play in the lever when the levers released. If there's none adjust the screw that pushes on the piston to give a tiny bit of free play.
 
Roger that… Had not tried leaving it open overnight.

Either way, NOT likely a function of a worn clutch pack, correct?
 
A016738 said:
Roger that… Had not tried leaving it open overnight.

Either way, NOT likely a function of a worn clutch pack, correct?
Click to expand...

Really sounds like air. Bleed it. Tie the master off and maybe tap the clutch slave a bit with a rubber mallet to dislodge any bubbles. I think SirJAG has the highest mileage Pani on the forum. I wonder if that clutch has been replaced. That being said I don't know if they act strange at the end of life relative to the anti-judder stuff in the clutchpack. Mine has about the same mileage as yours. I make a habit of tying both masters off before I got riding BTW. Last time I went riding for an extended period my clutch needed bled about after every third day (about every 1200 miles).
 
baggerman said:
I think SirJAG has the highest mileage Pani on the forum.
Click to expand...

HAD...maybe lol...
did 35K on the 1199
did 30K on the 1299
at 5k miles on the V4 (only 1k mine)...

I did talk to two owners down in houston, the day i got my V4...one guy with a 2021 had 55K miles, only issue was water pump, warranty repair. Another guy with a 2020 like mine with 60K Miles, just got his 4th desmo done, he had no issues yet. Neither guy was a track guy though....I do 3-5 weekends a year at cota

fingers crossed...really want more than 30k before this one pops!

JAG
 
Endless…rf 650 ?

I’ll bleed through fresh from and emptied reservoir but I assume no issues mixing with residual Motul in the system? All the same spec.
 
SirJAG said:
HAD...maybe lol...
did 35K on the 1199
did 30K on the 1299
at 5k miles on the V4 (only 1k mine)...

I did talk to two owners down in houston, the day i got my V4...one guy with a 2021 had 55K miles, only issue was water pump, warranty repair. Another guy with a 2020 like mine with 60K Miles, just got his 4th desmo done, he had no issues yet. Neither guy was a track guy though....I do 3-5 weekends a year at cota

fingers crossed...really want more than 30k before this one pops!

JAG
Click to expand...

that's impressive, good to hear
 
A016738 said:
Endless…rf 650 ?

I’ll bleed through fresh from and emptied reservoir but I assume no issues mixing with residual Motul in the system? All the same spec.
Click to expand...

Yep. In my experience it’s more stable and less hygroscopic than Motul. Porsche forums say it’s the least “compressible” brake fluid.

I think this clutch engagement vagueness is a consequence of the clutch fluid getting too hot because this bike runs like an inferno. You also have a thru-shaft to engage the clutch so there’s a long rod and seals. And the actual engine oil is significantly changing viscosity as it heats up
 
A016738 said:
Got an issue with clutch engagement disappearing under hot/stand still traffic conditions.
Newly developed issue
11k miles on 2020 PV4 base
Clutch fully (and repeatedly) bled with relatively new RBF660

Clutch engagement was always way out towards the fully extended lever but was always consistent.

Lately when sitting in traffic the clutch will remain engaged with the bike wanting to walk forward to the point of a stall with brakes applied if I don't go to neutral.

Pumping lever does not help, nor does bleeding.

Lever free play adjustment does not seem to help either.

Is this a symptom of worn plates? Always thought clutch slip was worn plates. This is the opposite. Plenty of friction under heavy throttle but I'm losing the disengagement.

Under normal riding conditions all is well. Only happens in prolonged stop and go traffic.

I'm at 11k miles so was going to just replace the clutch pack to see if that fixes things cause it'll likely be due soon anyway.

I've researched this forum and others and most talk about this being related to a need to be bled but that seems not to be my issue. Could I have a failing slave (or master) cylinder? No fluid leakage anywhere.


SECONDARY QUESTION:

Any significant difference between the aftermarket (ducabike, etc..) and OEM plates?
Click to expand...

Clutch slave cylinder. replace it. CNC Clutch slave cylinder Ducati V4
 
A016738 said:
Got an issue with clutch engagement disappearing under hot/stand still traffic conditions.
Newly developed issue
11k miles on 2020 PV4 base
Clutch fully (and repeatedly) bled with relatively new RBF660

Clutch engagement was always way out towards the fully extended lever but was always consistent.

Lately when sitting in traffic the clutch will remain engaged with the bike wanting to walk forward to the point of a stall with brakes applied if I don't go to neutral.

Pumping lever does not help, nor does bleeding.

Lever free play adjustment does not seem to help either.

Is this a symptom of worn plates? Always thought clutch slip was worn plates. This is the opposite. Plenty of friction under heavy throttle but I'm losing the disengagement.

Under normal riding conditions all is well. Only happens in prolonged stop and go traffic.

I'm at 11k miles so was going to just replace the clutch pack to see if that fixes things cause it'll likely be due soon anyway.

I've researched this forum and others and most talk about this being related to a need to be bled but that seems not to be my issue. Could I have a failing slave (or master) cylinder? No fluid leakage anywhere.


SECONDARY QUESTION:

Any significant difference between the aftermarket (ducabike, etc..) and OEM plates?
Click to expand...
I had this problem. It’s likely the brembo master cylinder needs replacement. Also check that the lever depressions pin hasn’t been lengthened to try and correct the problem.
 
jackyff8 said:
how did you find it after the CNC slave cylinder? Any improvements interms of the heavy heavy clutch engaged on the SP2? I find it very unbearable after a few sets of lights in stop and go traffic. The wet clutch on the standard V4 is much lighter...
Click to expand...
I find it okay. The same like oem. You can replace your lever or the clutch pump if you want to feel improvement.
 
Had this issue on my 2020 base v4, dealership said it was O-rings in the slave cylinder went bad.
 

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