Drop the front or raise the rear?

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In my notes the last time I checked sag I was 195.9 (6'-3") with an additional 25lbs for riding gear. I've gone to just putting a 25lb weight in a backpack for setting sag as actually wearing all that crap while working on the bike really sucks.
 
I’d be willing to bet your geometry is fooked due to not have the right preload or springs in it. Take it to a trusted suspension specialist and have them set it up for you. @craig bush or @SirJAG or someone in Texas might be able to send you in the right direction. It’ll definitely be worth the money. Suspension stuff is a tricky beast if you don’t what you’re doing. Also, pick up a copy of Trevitt’s Sportbike Suspension Tuning. So much good info in there.
 
My 2 cents, set the bike to stock settings, shock free length, fork height, clickers, preload etc. Check the tires, are they Supercorsas in good condition and pressure is factory 2.1 and 2.3 bar? Steering damper should be stock settings as well and what about chain and sprockets- are they stock and well maintained? Set the sag with a mate helping as a starting point, making sure you have 10 or even 15mm free sag at the rear, (not sure what the front should be 30?) but preload "should" be 8-14 mm on the forks, you will only know whats good by riding it. Since youre tall you will put more weight over the front so may need more preload/spring rate. Once you have a baseline then you can start to check where the problem occurs and take detailed notes after each ride , remembering to change only ONE thing at a time. G'luck and ask RRX on the free supension advice thread. What I did was lengthen the shock and run a 60 profile to make it feel right on the 1299, but the 1199 may be very different.
 
From a discussion with @roadracerx

Shock preload range on a sport bike is typically between 10 and 16 mm. If you have less than 10 mm of preload the top out spring in the shock may not work properly and if you have more than 16 mm you may have coiling binding before max travel.
Click to expand...

I’d imagine something similar for fork springs.

Sag is just one piece of the geometry puzzle. There’s some weird relationship between rider sag and static sag that can drastically effect handling. But then some suspension tuners don’t care about sag one bit and will rely more on preload and how the bike feels.

I found that when I first got the bike, I dialed in the correct rider sag with the stock springs and bike felt sluggish. I talked with a tuner and he put the preload back to stock and the bike felt much more nimble riding higher in the suspension (but it was too harsh of a ride). So I talked with RRX and he suggested new springs f/r and he was spot on. Static and rider sag were pretty much dead nuts and preload was within the set range. The handling was much improved as well as comfort.
 
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Thank you everybody--all good info! James--let's talk this weekend. I'm bringing the R1. Not sure who Doc Allan is---he's located here in Austin? I know Roger from OffRoad/OnRoad is local and is present at Ridesmart track days. I would bring the 1199S this weekend and try to get it dialed in at COTA, but at this time the R1 breeds SO much more confidence.

Paul--I'll check the steering damper--pretty sure it's set to the center value. Chain and sprockets are brand new. Tires are fine. Pressure is correct. I will try setting DES to center values; currently I have everything fairly stiff to suit my weight.

I'm about to order some Ohlins 10.5 fork springs to match my weight. They are rated for 225lbs and up. The 10 is rated for up to 225. Stock is apparently 10 so not sure how much different it will be but I'm willing to do it. I'll do fresh fork oil as well. No leaking at seals so I imagine the seals are OK at this time.

But--after saying all this---the issues I'm feeling, in my opinion, point to weird geometry, rather than less-than-optimum suspension. I mean, hard to steer, and unwilling to stay leaned over--are these suspension-related, or geometry-related symptoms?

Greg
 
Guys--disregard my last post's spring rates---those numbers were supplied to me by a dealer who was quoting Marzocchi spring ratings not Ohlins. Sorry--
 
greggiacona said:
Thank you everybody--all good info! James--let's talk this weekend. I'm bringing the R1. Not sure who Doc Allan is---he's located here in Austin? I know Roger from OffRoad/OnRoad is local and is present at Ridesmart track days. I would bring the 1199S this weekend and try to get it dialed in at COTA, but at this time the R1 breeds SO much more confidence.

Paul--I'll check the steering damper--pretty sure it's set to the center value. Chain and sprockets are brand new. Tires are fine. Pressure is correct. I will try setting DES to center values; currently I have everything fairly stiff to suit my weight.

I'm about to order some Ohlins 10.5 fork springs to match my weight. They are rated for 225lbs and up. The 10 is rated for up to 225. Stock is apparently 10 so not sure how much different it will be but I'm willing to do it. I'll do fresh fork oil as well. No leaking at seals so I imagine the seals are OK at this time.

But--after saying all this---the issues I'm feeling, in my opinion, point to weird geometry, rather than less-than-optimum suspension. I mean, hard to steer, and unwilling to stay leaned over--are these suspension-related, or geometry-related symptoms?

Greg
Click to expand...

Suspension and geometry go hand in hand.

10.5 will probably do you ok in the front per the Ohlins guide
 
I don't know what guide you're referencing, but I'm lighter than him and using 11.0 springs. From my notes, total preload travel on the forks is just under 15 full turns in from full out. At 8 turns in from full out I'm at 28-29mm static sag and 40mm rider.
 
i dont know how yall are getting so much static sag... mine is 5-9mm... My rider sag is 30mm front/rear.
(static as measured length shock compresses/settles with wheels off the ground/un-weighted, and just bike weight only holding bike upright and level)

I upgraded to n100 spring in rear, front is still stock, base model. Wouldnt change a thing, love the way my bike handles....always makes me question internet values and supposed recommendations..

my 2cents...
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I don't know what guide you're referencing, but I'm lighter than him and using 11.0 springs. From my notes, total preload travel on the forks is just under 15 full turns in from full out. At 8 turns in from full out I'm at 28-29mm static sag and 40mm rider.
Click to expand...

Been discussed before…
 

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You need to head to your local track suspension guru, he will tell you your front springs need to be increased, and will dial in the suspension for you.

Everything you describe is the opposite for me, I dialed mine in 10 years ago, Dave Moss only made minor adjustments, the bike can be rode mid A group pace, with little effort.

32mm front 30mm rear sag and at 200lbs, im at the limit of the stock springs, any heavier and with things not dialed it correctly, the bike is going to handle like a tank.

You own a ferrari get it dialed in professionally
 

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